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Minutes - 07/21/2003 - Plan CommissionVILLAGE OF OAK BROOK PLAN COMMISSION MINUTES July 21, 2003 1. CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 7:34 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: MEMBERS ABSENT: Chairwoman Members Barbara Payovich Paul Adrian David Braune Jeffrey Bulin Marcia Tropinski Gerald Wolin Surendra Goel ALSO PRESENT: Trustee Stelios Aktipis Trustee Asif Yusuf Village Engineer Dale Durfey Director of Community Development Robert Kallien A quorum was present. IL APPROVAL OF MINUTES Member Braune moved, seconded by Member Adrian, to waive the reading of the June 16, 2003 Plan Commission meeting minutes and to approve them as written. VOICE VOTE: All in favor. Motion passed. Ill. FALCO SUBDIVISION — 2901 OAK BROOK ROAD — PRELIMINARY PLAT — FOUR -LOT SUBDIVISION Chairwoman Payovich advised that the stormwater consultant has had insufficient time to complete their review prior to the hearing. It has been recommended that this matter be continued to the August 18, 2003 meeting. Member Wolin moved, seconded by Member Bulin, to continue the matter to the August 18, 2003 Plan Commission meeting. VOICE VOTE: All in favor. Motion passed. PLAN COMMISSION Minutes I PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc July 21, 2003 IV. VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW PROJECT — TEXT AMENDMENTS — TITLE 13 OF THE VILLAGE CODE — ZONING ORDINANCE — CHAPTER 11 SIGN REGULATIONS — ADD REGULATIONS FOR SALE AND FOR LEASE IN OFFICE AND COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS Chairwoman Payovich advised that the Village requested a continuance of this matter to the August 18, 2003 meeting. Member Adrian moved, seconded by Member Bulin, to continue the matter to the August 18, 2003 Plan Commission meeting VOICE VOTE: All in favor. Motion passed. V. HAWKS SOCCER CLUB — SPECIAL USE — TITLE 13 OF THE VILLAGE CODE — ZONING ORDINANCE CHAPTER 1OA -2 RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES — TO ALLOW THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1315 -1425 KENSINGTON (THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF KENSINGTON ROAD AND JORIE BLVD) TO BE USED FOR SOCCER FIELDS. Director of Community Development Kallien said the Hawks Soccer Club is a not - for - profit group petitioning for a special use at the Autumn Oaks property to utilize it for soccer facilities. The current owner of the property is McDonald's Corporation, and they have a license agreement that is contained in the case file, which details all of the particulars between the two parties. Mike Ruszkowski, President of the Hawks Soccer Club, provided the background of the organization. He said that their club is about six years old. They started with one team and have grown to almost 19 teams, primarily for girls, but they do have 3 boys teams. They have over 330 children from various communities, including Oak Brook that play in the club. They have been sharing Park District space with a variety of other clubs in Hinsdale, Clarendon Hills, Burr Ridge and Oak Brook. One of the most important things is that the fields are becoming so overused that they are almost to the point of being dangerous in some conditions. It was announced in the spring of last year, that the Village of Hinsdale would be closing down 4 -5 more fields, which would probably mean that things would be even tighter and the field use would be greater than it currently is. They were fortunate to speak with Joe Endress from McDonald's Corporation and over a period of time have reached an agreement for the Hawks to develop 7 soccer fields on the Autumn Oaks property located on the southwest corner of Jorie Boulevard and Kensington Road, just across from the Oak Brook Park District. They are hoping to build four large fields and three small fields. The large fields are approximately 60x110 yards and the smaller youth fields would be approximately 50x60 to 70 yards. The distances can vary a little. It is hoped that in the spring they will be able to afford to build an international size field, which would be approximately 70 wide x 120 yards long. There are some flood plain considerations so they are going to hold off to see how the flood plain map may change with DuPage County, which would also give them some time to raise money to do a nice job. One of the key elements of the plan is that along Kensington Road each of the fields (that back up to that road) will have a series of backstops. The backstops are designed to keep the ball from going onto the street and to keep the children from running out into the street after a ball. The backstops are anticipated to be 20 feet high and 65 feet wide. The manufacturer recommends that this is an adequate backstop system for what they are seeking. They are seeking an allowance to develop a soft parking lot. The whole thrust behind their relationship with McDonald's is that this is a temporary/nonpermanent situation, but they still have to solve the parking needs. They had hoped to construct a limestone parking lot. The dimensions have changed since a meeting with the Village Engineer and they have modified the size slightly (page 15 of the case file). The dimensions are approximately 126 feet wide by 170 feet long. The PLAN COMMISSION Minutes July 21, 2003 2 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc size of the parking spaces has been changed from 9 feet to 10 feet and increased the aisle width from 26 to 27 feet wide. The parking lot has been made smaller to avoid drainage issues. If the lot falls under 25,000 square feet, then there is less work required and still accomplish what they need. They are also seeking allowances from curbing, landscaping, screening, and striping requirements. These allowances are requested because they are trying to keep the cost down and maintain the temporary nature as required by McDonald's. It is McDonald's intention, at some point, to return the property for commercial development. Hawks Soccer Club has reached an agreement with Ace Corporation to allow parking in the Ace parking lot (located on Kensington Rd) on Sunday only. They believe the limestone parking lot is sufficient for practice days and would be designed in a circular pattern so that the children can be dropped off in the lot and not on the street, then the cars can return onto the street. On Sunday, when there may be more traffic, they have made arrangements for parking at Ace Hardware. If need be, there is additional parking at the Oak Brook Park District, but they do not anticipate the need for its use. On game day, at any given time, there may be no more than 60 cars and they are anticipating being able to accommodate 57 cars, so between the lot and the availability of parking at Ace, they do not believe it will be needed. The designated player and fan benches, which by league rules, fans and players must be on the opposite ends of the fields, are located on the field. They intend to place some of those shown on the plan, but it depends on the fundraising by spring. An overview was provided that shows exactly what they are trying to do. The final issue, is that of the storage shed. They are required to maintain the property, so they will need to have a commercial grade lawnmower and a place to store it. They plan to buy a 25 -foot storage unit, it would be stored behind the trees and painted green so that it blends into the landscape. They have do some research and have found that the units are very secure and can be locked (so as to minimize any vandalism or theft). They will also be able to store other equipment in the unit. John Gramas, 187 Briarwood Loop, asked the following questions, which were answered by Mike Ruszkowski. Is the Hawks Soccer Club a professional club? - Response: No. It is a not - for - profit group and designated as a 501 c3, under the Internal Revenue Service rules that also defines it as a charitable organization. One of the key elements of the group, is that no one in the club profits from anything that the club does, except for the few professional trainers that are hired. It is mostly girls ages 7 to 14. The founders of the club had daughters so it evolved into a girls club. With the passing of time, the girls have grown a little, have siblings that are boys, so they now have several boys team. What is the age limit of the players? - Response: The group has children that are approximately 7 to 14 years of age. They will add two youth teams that would be for 14 and 15 year olds, but they only would play half the year, because during the rest of the year they play at their high school. The maximum age through the league is 18 years of age, which is through high school. The Hawks do not have anyone that old yet. How long is the season? — Response: There are actually two seasons, the first season runs from April to mid -June, maybe a summer program, and resumes around September 1 — through November 1. Is it a new league? — Response: No, IWSL (Illinois Women Soccer League), which is the parent league, is about 25 years old. There are approximately 980 teams in the league. PLAN COMMISSION Minutes July 21, 2003 3 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc The league goes as far north as the Wisconsin border and as far south as Bourbonnais. There are roughly 12,000 girls playing in the league. Are there any other fields in the area or close by? — Response: There is one full size and a smaller youth field in the Oak Brook Park District. They go back to Hinsdale, Clarendon Hills. How many cars will there be? — Response: They are building a lot for 57 cars. The idea is that there is a coach and assistant coach for every team so for practice purposes they assume there would be roughly 40 maximum cars there, because parents rarely stay for practice. They practice is shifts so half the kids would be there 4 -5:30 and the other half 5:30 -7 p.m. At any given time, there probably would be no more than 20 cars during practice. Will there be any night games, lights, loudspeakers or amplification? — Response: No to all. How late will the practice and games be? — Response: Practices go until 7 p.m. dependent on light conditions. Sunday games are usually from noon until 5 p.m. How long is the contract? — Response: The license agreement is for two years. How much will the Village be obligated to cover monetarily for police and fire protection? — Response: They were paying the not - for - profit rate at the Park District, which is half of the normal rate. Hopefully, it will open some Park District space for full rate usage so it will increase the park district revenue. They do not anticipate an impact on police and fire. What would the International Field be used for? — Response: It is called an International sized field because it is built to international specifications. It is 70 wide by 120 long, which is the maximum by regulation. The idea was to have one very nice field, with the best possible grass, to use for a championship game or as a showpiece. . Charlie Blum, 3000 Coolidge, said that his daughter and friends are part of the Hawks organization and said that it would be a nice amenity to have a facility like this within the village. Peter Delaportes, resident, said that he has three daughters and a son and that his daughters have just started in the Hawks program. For McDonald's to allow these fields to be built on their land, is amazing. It is the best thing he has seen for this Village in a long time, so they are very much in support of it. Marie Kokenis, 10 York Lake Court, said that she is an assistant coach with the Hawks and she is also an Oak Brook Park District Commissioner. Her daughter is going into the 6th grade at Butler. She said that this is an important community need. As a commissioner, they have started lacrosse programs at the Park District, which takes away the use of the soccer fields by outside organizations so that it can be offered to the children of the community. It has become a big sport; therefore, lacrosse and soccer are vying for the same space. This use helps the Park District and AWSO is able to use the fields at the Park District more so it would open more time for everyone. She is the Oak Brook Park District Soccer liaison, and everyone on the board is in support of the proposal and thinks that McDonald's has done a wonderful thing for the community. Member Braune questioned whether the license agreement with McDonald's was exclusive and whether other groups would try to use the facility believing that the property may be part of park district. Mr. Ruskowski responded that it is an exclusive agreement and that McDonald's is requiring signage be placed on the property stating that the soccer fields are designated for PLAN COMMISSION Minutes 4 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc July 21, 2003 Hawks Soccer by exclusive license from McDonald's corporation and all others would be considered trespassing. There is a similar sign in place on the property now that indicates it is not for public use. There will be a fair amount of self - policing, but the Oak Brook police department, would police it as they are now. McDonald's Corporation also regularly polices the property. Member Wolin said that this is a very positive program and it behooves them to support it. He said that the parking lot appears small for the number of fields. He questioned what the traffic is like in the area during the week at peak times? — Response: In regards to the parking lot, it is important to remember is that not all of the teams will be there at any given time. On the practice schedule, it appears the most teams practicing at the same time would be about 6 -7 teams, which would be roughly 12 -14 cars. On Sundays, at any given time, there would be six games going on and at any given time, there would be 40 -45 cars coming and going. With 57 spaces, they believe that a fair amount is covered. The Ace property will handle any overflow. Most of the games are held on Sunday between noon and 5 p.m. In regards to the traffic. Over the last several months of driving in that area he has observed that because Kensington is not a through road, there is not a lot of passerby traffic. It appears to be mostly traffic to and from the office buildings on that road. The congestion appeared to be more on Jorie Blvd than on Kensington. Member Bulin asked if parking is allowed on Kensington Road. Response: No, there is signage indicated that parking is not allowed. Member Tropinski questioned how the liability issues would b handled. Response: The league they belong to, The Illinois Women's Soccer League has a master insurance policy with limits of one million dollars per occurrence. They are considering raising the number. Member Bulin asked why the International field would be done the following year. Response: They want to do a nice job on it to make it a showpiece field. Right now, they do not have the money to do it and it will take a fair amount of work. Member Bulin asked what the renewal terms were with McDonald's. Response: The prevailing opinion is that if they (Hawks) behave themselves, the fields look good and everyone (community) likes it, they may be able to use it as soccer fields until the land is developed. Member Wolin moved, seconded by Member Braune to recommend approval of the request from the Hawks Soccer Club for a special use including several allowances to the Zoning Ordinance for soccer fields and related site improvements as depicted on pages 11 and G -1thru G -4 of the case file on the property known as Autumn Oaks located at 1315 and 1425 Kensington Road. In making this recommendation, the Commission finds that the applicant has satisfied the applicable standards required for a special use including: The proposed use is consistent with the recently adopted special use for "parks and open field recreational activities" in the ORA -1 District. 2. The McDonald's Corporation as owners of the property have approved the project through a license agreement between them and the Hawk's Soccer Club. 3. The use of the Autumn Oaks property for recreational purposes is consistent with the surrounding land uses including being located adjacent to existing recreational uses operated by the Oak Brook District. 4. The proposal to construct soccer fields and related improvements will provide for the public benefit and convenience of the community and its residents, PLAN COMMISSION Minutes July 21, 2003 5 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc 5. The proposal to provide on -site parking, trash /sanitation facilities, installation of temporary barriers and limiting the hours of operation will protect the public health, safety and welfare of the community and those utilizing the facilities. 6. The temporary nature of the improvements will not negatively impact the value of adjacent property. 7. No lighting or amplification is allowed. 8. Final Engineering approval. ROLL CALL VOTE: Ayes: 5- Braune, Bulin, Tropinski, Wolin and Payovich Nays: 0- Abstain: 1- Adrian Absent: 1 - Goel Motion Carried. Member Adrian noted that he supported the requested but would abstain from the vote due to the fact that he is a Hawks Soccer coach. Vl. SUE BOON SUBDIVISION — FINAL PLAT — REVIEW OF RECONFIGURATION OF DETENTION BASIN ON LOT 1 Louis Wehrspann, Roake and Associates, said that the previously approved Sue Boon Subdivision, a three -lot subdivision located near the southeast corner of Oak Brook Road and York Road. The owner of Lot 1 in the subdivision is going to construct his personal residence on the property. With the construction, a reconfiguration of the detention facility located within the rear yard is required. The detention facility is located on private property and the maintenance of the facility is solely the responsibility of the homeowner. The proposed detention facility consists of a small pond that will provide an attractive water feature for the rear yard. A graded grass slope of varying degrees generally surrounds the pond. Along the East Side of the pond, a 2y2 -foot high landscape block retaining wall is proposed. The wall is nine feet away from the edge of the pond to provide a safety buffer between the wall and the pond. The design of the proposed pond incorporates several safety features as required by the Village. Both an above water safety ledge and underwater safety ledge are provided. In addition to the village's requirements, a safety water ledge at the high water level has also been incorporated into the pond design adjacent to the retaining wall. The proposed pond will be owned and maintained by the homeowner. There is no public access to this lot and the perimeter of the lot will be fenced. The wall is separated from the pond by nine -foot landscape buffer. They believe that they have met or exceeded all of the safety requirements of the Village. The owner is looking forward to making his home in Oak Brook. Michael Castaldo said that he represented his brother, Nick Castaldo in this matter. He reiterated that this is the responsibility of the homeowner and will have the appropriate insurance policy in place. They do not see any liability or exposure for the Village of Oak Brook. No one in the audience spoke in support of or in opposition to the proposed request. Village Engineer said that he brought the issue up because it was variation from the village standard, which has no walls in a residential subdivision detention facility, and also that some of the Village Board and some commissions have had some concerns with various walls over the last several years. The wall they are proposing is about 2 '/2 feet high, but it is a variation from the standards. Member Braune asked the length of the wall and was told that it was approximately 140 feet long. PLAN COMMISSION Minutes July 21, 2003 6 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc The Village Engineer said that on the easterly edge of the pond, there is the normal water level and then there is a 3 to 1 slope, which is a fairly steep slope for three feet, which takes the ground level one foot above the normal water level. There is a six foot area of fairly flat slope, which is 10 to 1 in a cross section, which is the above water safety ledge. At that point there is the 2 Y2 foot wall, and is only on the east side. It is very gradual and is not steep there at all. The north side is configured as such that there is an above water safety ledge and a wall for the pool and the cabana and the walkway around the pool and patio. Chairwoman Payovich asked if this is similar to a retaining wall. The Village Engineer responded yes. Member Bulin asked if the perimeter fence was shown on the plan. Mr. Wehrspann responded that it is not shown on the plan, but the fence will go around the perimeter of the entire subdivision. Member Adrian asked if landscaping would be covering the wall, or whether it would be exposed. Mr. Nickolas Castaldo said that he plans to have the wall to be exposed to show the look of the brick. At the bottom of the wall there will be landscaping. Mr. Michael Castaldo said that there is a 9 -foot landscape easement, and a berm sits on the other side of the wall. The wall will only be visible from the interior of the yard. There will be a fence on the other side of the wall to add an additional safety feature. If there were a concern, it would be about children in the area. That is not only a concern of the commission, but to Mr. Castaldo as well, because he plans to have a family. Chairwoman Payovich asked for clarification that the wall would not be visible from the exterior of the property. Village Engineer Durfey said possibly two interior residences would see it. Village Engineer Durfey noted that the plan does have an above water and under water safety ledge. Member Wolin noted that the low water level is five feet and the high water level is approximately eight feet. He asked if this was typical for detention ponds, because it seems rather deep. He said that the Village Engineer noted that previous boards and commissions have been concerned about retaining walls. He asked why those concerns were raised about the retaining wall. His concern is that if it is approved, it would set a precedent and there would be a fair number of requests. If there are issues of safety, it could become an issue elsewhere and does not want to set a precedent. Village Engineer Durfey said that a lake in a subdivision are typically five to six to six feet deep. The depth is necessary so that there is not a lot of weed growth and to allow some fish. The underwater safety ledge is typically at a three -foot elevation, drops off a few feet after that to get a depth of clear water, and inhibits growth. The balance in water is 2 '/2 feet which is not uncommon. The wall issue was brought up when the wall appeared for the Forest Gate Subdivision on Jorie and Forest Gate road. Ever since then the Village Board has been concerned with walls in general. The last issue was for Yorkshire Glen Subdivision on Harger Road near Yorkshire Woods, which had a wall on the backside of the detention basin. It was a dry bottom facility and it was reviewed by the Plan Commission and Village Board for safety and aesthetics. The wall was along Harger Road, which was only visible to the interior homes not from Harger Road. Chairwoman Payovich asked how high the wall was and whether it was similar to this request. Village Engineer Durfey responded that it is similar and around 3 to 3'/2 feet. Mr. Nickolas Castaldo said that he wanted the water detention not a dry detention facility. PLAN COMMISSION Minutes July 21, 2003 7 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc 1�..� Member Bulin moved, seconded by Member Adrian to recommend approval of the Reconfiguration of the Detention Basin on Lot 1 of the Sue Boon Subdivision as proposed subject to the following conditions: 1. That a perimeter fence be indicated on the drawings 2. Provide a rendering of the wall elevation to scale, show the wall materials to be used and the surrounding landscape. 3. Final Engineering approval. ROLL CALL VOTE: Ayes: 5- Braune, Bulin, Tropinski, Wolin and Payovich Nays: 0- Abstain: 1- Adrian Absent: 1 - Goel Motion Carried. VII. VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK — ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW PROJECT — TEXT AMENDMENTS — TITLE 13 OF THE VILLAGE CODE — ZONING ORDINANCE — CHAPTER 3 STRUCTURE HEIGHT AND DRIVEWAY GATES Director of Community Development Kallien said this matter was heard previously by the Plan Commission at its June 16, 2003 meeting. It was on the Zoning Board of Appeals agenda for public hearing on July 1, 2003. The request is to expand the ability to locate driveway gates from parcels of one -acre minimum lot size to include all parcels zoned R -2. As a result of that hearing there were a number of issues raised by some residents of Ginger Creek, that brought up some additional issues that were not presented to the Plan Commission. On page 16 of the case file, there are three significant issues. The existing regulations were written to treat driveway gates as accessory structures. Accessory structures can be built to a height of fifteen feet. Member Adrian moved, seconded by Member Bulin, to continue the matter indefinitely to allow staff time to conduct a thorough review VOICE VOTE: All in favor. Motion passed. Vlll. VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK — ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW PROJECT — TEXT AMENDMENTS — TITLE 13 OF THE VILLAGE CODE — ZONING ORDINANCE — CHAPTER 6 — RESIDENCE DISTRICTS, SECTION 13- 6A -3 -D, SECTION 13- 6B -3 -D, SECTION 13- 6C -3 -D, SECTION 13- 6D -3 -D — STRUCTURE HEIGHT; SECTION 13- 6B -3F- 2, SECTION 13- 6C -3F -2, SECTION 13- 6D -3F -2 — SIDE LOAD GARAGES Director of Community Development Kallien said that the next item in the continuing comprehensive Zoning Ordinance review is Chapter 6, which deals with maximum residential house height. In the R -1 and R -2 districts, if there is at least one acre of land, structure height is allowed up to 40 feet. However the increased height over 30 feet is subject to increased side yard setbacks. For all of the other parcels, the maximum height is 30 feet. There are a number of property owners that would like to see this issue addressed, however, we do not want to be hasty to recommend something that would cause other problems down the road. Structure height and lot size are two things that help define the character of the community. Oak Brook is different than other communizes because we have larger lot sizes and increased setbacks that has resulted in a quality look to it, in terms of its housing stock and image. Whatever changes PLAN COMMISSION Minutes PC -MTG 03- JUL.dac July 21, 2003 are made, we do not want to take away from that. There may be opportunities to increase the structure height without impacting negatively on other properties. There is a chart on page 10a of the case file that compares the way structures are measured in other towns. The maximum building height is somewhat different in other communities. Oak Brook measures its building height from the grade elevation in the front to the maximum height of the peak. In Naperville, it is measured from the front grade up to the mean between the eave and the peak, so there is a substantial amount potentially of roof beyond the mean line. The maximum height is 35 feet, however, being measured at the mean, the structure could be 42 to 45 feet high, depending on how the roofline is defined. A number of other towns measure structure height that same way. Oak Brook seems to be the exception when it comes to height. Most of the other communities use the mean or another way of averaging to develop the maximum height. Hinsdale allows a 42 -foot high maximum structure height, and as long as they provide a 27 -foot side yard, they can have up to 42 feet. In Oak Brook, there has to be over a 30 -foot side yard setback, just to get 40 feet. There is a variation between Hinsdale's largest lots compare to Oak Brook's largest lot. Member Wolin questioned that Hinsdale measures on the mean also, so 42 feet could really be 50 feet. Surrounding communities include Hinsdale, Elmhurst, Downers Grove, Oakbrook Terrace and Lombard. Other communities that have similar qualities to Oak Brook include Naperville, Wheaton, Burr Ridge, Long Grove, Wilmette, Winnetka and Barrington. Member Tropinski provided additional information on Lake Forest, Lake Bluff and Glencoe. Although four towns measure structure height to the peak Oakbrook Terrace (35 feet), Wheaton (35 feet), Winnetka (38 feet) and Wilmette (35 feet) they are higher than Oak Brook. It seems the industry norm is higher than what Oak Brook allows. What has happened in Oak Brook is that we have some exclusive looking houses, that to maximize the buildable they tend to utilize flat roofs. From a maintenance standpoint, flat roofs are problems down the road. We do not want Oak Brook to be all big flat roofed houses because part of a community is having varying different styles and qualities to the homes. Reviewing whether other communities have maximum heights that are different on smaller lots, and some do, but they are not much lower than the maximums on the larger lots. Half the communities impose the concept of maximum lot coverage or floor area ratio. It might be a good concept for them, however, looking where Oak Brook is a developed community, with the majority of its lots being larger lots with greater setbacks. There is a much bigger buildable area because of the larger lots. The resulting houses that have been built utilize the buildable area and do take into account the neighbors. In the storm water management equation, the Village Engineer does factor in greater coverage. He is not sold on the concept of floor area ratio on maximum lot coverage. It will create administrative issues and we have to look at what is the bottom line impact of imposing something like that. There are 3300 houses in Oak Brook, maybe there will be 200 -300 or 10% will be teardowns over the next ten years, what will be the impact of treating these houses differently in allowing them to utilize their buildable area. There are issues of structure height and Oak Brook is on the low end. Construction technology is changing and may of the houses are dated, with lower ceilings and they did not have the great room concept. If Oak Brook wants to be modern, as we move into the next redeveloping stage, is a higher maximum building height reasonable, and if it is what should it be? Should it be one height across the board or should larger lots be higher and smaller lots. Joe Perri, 137 Saddle Brook Drive, said that it should be considered on lots that slopes toward the back and someone wants a walkout concept, right now the five corner method is used or should a PLAN COMMISSION Minutes July 29, 2003 �9 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc — 1 ✓_ top of foundation based on front elevation, which would enable someone who wants a walk out basement to be able to have a full two -story rather than a ranch with a walk out because they are limited on the structure height. Director of Community Development Kallien responded that the Plan Commission would need to speak to that point. In all engineered lots in a subdivision approved by the Village Board, they have a recommended first floor elevation. The Village Engineer uses that to determine where the house starts. The additional language added to the recent text amendment allows the gaps to be filled in some of the pieces that were not engineered. Member Adrian said that if there is 10% redevelopment over the next ten years, is that status quo, or if the bar is raised, would the number be higher. Director of Community Development Kallien said that it might be higher. In the last 4 years there may have been 30 teardowns, but there are probably another 30 or so that people are interested in doing, but are watching to see what is happening with the structure height review, so that will influence the type of house is built. The whole teardown market depends upon the economics. In Hinsdale, they are tearing down very little houses and replacing them with very large houses. In Oak Brook, there have been some big houses torn down to build very big houses. The houses are becoming dated and houses that are 20 -30 years old are being replaced, it is a slightly different market. Michael Trilla, 59 Baybrook Lane, said that they are in favor of increasing the building height so that they could build their dream home and remain residents here for a long time. Member Wolin said that based on the facts at hand we have the opportunity to increase the structure height. Oak Brook is on the low end and we have some of the largest lots. There is a big difference between the larger and smaller lots in town. There may be controversy among the residents. He suggested that once the Plan Commission has formed a recommendation, that the Homeowners Association be notified of an upcoming meeting and invite them to attend or comment and solicit their feedback. Compared to other communities Oak Brook is on the low side. Director of Community Development Kallien said that we might need to create a model to show the differences between the different zoning district to show the impact. Member Adrian said that there are different land elevations and you cannot look at the proposed change and note that between two ranches there would be a forty foot house, because there is already a 30 foot house in between them. Mr. Perri said that he does not believe that there is going to be a flood of everyone tearing down houses and replacing them all with 40 -foot structures. Forty feet is not that high. There is not much of a difference between 30 and 40 feet in the structure height. A lot will be determined by the kind of roof that is on the house. With hip roofs, it goes in on an angle, and by the time you reach the 40 feet, you are so much further away from the side yard that it is not like 40 feet from the setback. Director of Community Development Kallien said that if someone chose to use a flat roof, they should be held to a 30 foot height, because someone with a flat roof has a greater impact on adjacent homes than a 40 foot roof with a slope. Member Adrian asked if there were an area of the Village that would be impacted the most by the increase in structure height. Director of Community Development Kallien said that Woodside Estates, Forest Glen, Robin Hood Ranch some of Timber Trails subdivisions did not utilize the 30 foot structure height. Member Adrian asked what the benefit is to the increased height. Mr. Perri responded that it would allow a greater diversity of style and architecture and taking away the flat roof. PLAN COMMISSION Minutes PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc 10 _7�� July 21, 2003 Mr. Trilla said that that is the key element when they meet with the architect is how to build the style of house that they want, because every time they get to it, there is a flat roof. So the style of the house is the key issue here. Director of Community Development Kallien said that if there is a compelling interest to increase the structure height, then what should it be and what additional parameters should be put in place to protect Oak Brook. Mr. Perri asked if the Commission would consider something higher on the larger lots in the R -1 and R -2 district, because currently it is already 40 feet. Director of Community Development Kallien said that there are many magnificent houses in Oak Brook and many of them had the right to utilize the 40 -foot height, and most of the utilization is for architectural features not livable space. The Fire Department does not have a problem if the height went above the 40 feet. There concern is the habitable space over 40 feet. Director of Community Development Kallien said that he will put together some details that addresses height, setbacks, and concepts to increase the structure height. We do have to get the homeowners associations involved, because we do not want to have them to just come out at the Zoning Board of Appeals hearing. Chairman Payovich said that staff would compile the information at the next meeting, and then hold a workshop to invite the Homeowners Association to attend. Director of Community Development Kallien said that he would develop several scenarios to review and evaluate the qualities of each. Trustee Aktipis said that he has heard very good suggestions at this meeting and thought Member Wolin had a very thoughtful analysis of the situation. One area that we need to focus is the homeowners association because some of those in the R -4 district may have the potential of tremendous change and it could be unwelcome by some residents. He has seen it happen it some other communities where small lots were used to build tremendously large houses. Oak Brook has a range of various sized lots and some of which can accommodate substantially higher elevations. The ideas area excellent are with a meeting with the homeowners association will be able to bring in some advice that the homeowner association boards could give us and guidance. Director of Community Development Kallien said that if the Commissioners have anything that they would like to see included in these concepts, to contact him and he will make it part of the scenarios. This is an important issue and perhaps at the next meeting we can come to a consensus. Member Wolin said that although it is an important issue and there is a need to do something, and personally he would support it, he does not want to rush it and have a bunch of people coming in shouting and screaming. It should be approached in a manner where they will have all the facts and do something that will make most of the people happy, because you will never make everyone happy. Member Wolin moved, seconded by Member Braune, to continue the matter to the August 18, 2003 Plan Commission meeting. VOICE VOTE: All in favor. Motion passed. PLAN COMMISSION Minutes PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc July 21, 2003 IX. OTHER BUSINESS Member Wolin said that he wanted to commend Director of Community Development Kallien for preparing the proposed recommendation that was used for the Hawks recommendation. It made it easy to make the motion and was very beneficial. There was no other business to discuss. X. ADJOURNMENT Member Adrian moved, seconded by Member Wolin to adjourn. VOICE VOTE: All in favor. Motion carried. Meeting was adjourned at 9:25 p.m. Director of Commu y Develop nt Secretary PLAN COMMISSION Minutes 12 PC -MTG 03- JUL.doc September 15 2003 Date Approved July 21, 2003