Minutes - 07/21/2008 - Plan Commission2
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MINUTES OF THE JULY 21, 2008 REGULAR MEETING
OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE VILLAGE OF
OAK BROOK APPROVED AS WRITTEN ON AUGUST
18, 2008
CALL TO ORDER: CALL TO ORDER
The Regular Meeting of the Plan Commission was called to order by Chairwoman
Payovich in the Samuel E. Dean Board Room of the Butler Government Center at
7:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL: ROLLCAIL
Gail Polanek called the roll with the following persons
PRESENT: Chairwoman Barbara Payovich,. Raju Iyer, Gopal Lalmalani, and
Marcia Tropinski
ABSENT: Member Richard Knitter, Mintu Sharma and Vivek Singhal
IN ATTENDANCE: Gerald Wolin, Trustee and Robert Kallien, Jr., Community
Development Director
APPROVAL OF MINUTES: MINUTES
PLAN COMMISSION MEETING OF APRIL 21, 2008
Motion by Member Tropinski, seconded by Member Iyer to approve the minutes of
the April 21, 2008 Regular Plan Commission Meeting as written. VOICE VOTE:
Motion Carried.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS BusUSINISIlNESS
There was no unfinished business to discuss.
NEW BUSINESS NEW BUSINESS
A. INSITE GOSHEN LLC, INSITE FREEPORT LLC, INSITE OAK BROOK. InSITE - TEXT
AMENDMENT -
LLC -- TEXT AMENDMENT — AMEND TEXT TO PERMIT A GROUND GROUND SIGN
SIGN WITH TENANT NAMES IN THE B -2 DISTRICT ON PROPERTIES WITH TENANT
NAMES IN B -2
LESS THAN 5 ACRES. DISTRICT
Director of Community Development Kallien provided a brief over view of the
request. The property located at 1400 16"' Street is an office building with multiple
tenants; however, it is zoned B -2. They would like a ground sign, but in the B -2
District the only ground signs allowed are to list the name of the shopping center.
This building is not a shopping center therefore there is a contradiction so they are
seeking a change in the existing sign code and how it relates to the B -2 District.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 1 of 26 July 21, 2008
Christina Morrison, Day and Robert, LLC attorney representing the applicant InSite
Goshen, LLC, InSite Freeport, LLC and InSite Oak Brook, LLC, which are all a part
of the InSite Realty family, reviewed the background and request.
Currently Section 13- 11 -8A1 reads as follows:
I. "There may be a total of not more than two (2) freestanding ground signs on
each of the boundary streets surrounding any shopping center in the B -2 District
located not less than forty (40') feet from any street line; provided that each sign
shall not exceed a total area of one thousand (1,000) square feet on either side, shall
not exceed thirty feet (30') in height, and each shall be limited to advertising the
shopping center, its merchandise or services."
They are proposing to add the following text:
"2. In a retail /commercial development containing less than five (5) acres, a
maximum of one (1) ground sign, which identifies the name and' address of the
development and may also identify the names and services or merchandise of each
of the tenants located in the center, may be erected in addition to signs affixed to the
building wall; provided that the sign shall not exceed a total of two hundred (200)
square feet on either side and shall not exceed fifteen (15) feet in height."
The reason they are requesting the amendment is because they are the only other
property located in the B -2 District in the village. This parcel along with the Oak
Brook Court and J. Alexander's restaurant located to the west and north of this
parcel was originally developed by the John Buck Company and Urban
Development and was intended to be a Galleria, which would have been an
extension of the Oakbrook Center. However, the development never materialized
and the development company sold off the property in three (3) lots. Oak Brook
Bank purchased the lot now owned by InSite; the other two parcels were intended to
be a high -end hotel, which also never materialized. The developer requested that the
village rezone the property to B -1 in order to build the Oak Brook Court and J.
Alexander's, which left Oak Brook Bank as the only remaining B -2 property in the
development and the only other B -2 property in the Village beside the Oakbrook
Center mall.
Larissa Addison, General Counsel and Managing Director with InSite Real Estate
Development as well as manager for the three entities that are the petitioner in the
case; said that InSite Real Estate Development has been a resident in Oak Brook
since 1996. They were originally located at 1603 16th Street and purchased the site
located at 1400 16`h Street in June of 2007. They moved to this site in February of
2008 and are located with their corporate offices that are on the third floor. They are
retail, industrial and office developer and have been in business for approximately
30 years. In that time, they have developed approximately 400 locations across the
country and are in approximately 39 states. They own approximately 52 retail
locations across the country. They have 21 industrial facilities with approximately
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 2 of 26 July 21, 2008
eol.l
14.5 million square feet of industrial space and two office buildings. They have a
Class A office building in Burr Ridge and the building located at 1400 16th Street.
They have redeveloped this building into a multi - tenant building. Originally the
building was intended to be for a single tenant, owner - occupied building as the Oak
Brook Bank corporate headquarters and branch location. When they purchased the
building, they did a sale lease back. They did lease back a portion of the building to
MB Bank, who currently occupies a portion of the first floor and a portion of the
basement. They occupy a portion of the third floor and the second floor is empty
right now as well as the remaining portion of the first floor. It has gone from a
single tenant owner /occupied building to a multi- tenant building, which has caused
the necessity to have a ground sign and actually be able to identify the tenants that
are located in the building. They are proposing one ground sign approximately 10
feet high by 6 feet high consisting of about 60 square feet on each side.
Ms. Morrison noted that the Village standards for a text amendment have addressed
the as part of the application and are contained in the case file.
Member Lalmalani questioned whether the MB Bank signs would be removed, if
this request were approved.
Ms. Morrison responded that MB Bank received variations for their wall signs
before InSite purchased the property from MB Bank and all of the signage existed at
that time. InSite leased a portion of the building back to MB Bank and as part of the
sale and lease, MB got to keep all of its existing wall signage. InSite is
contractually obligated to MB Bank for the wall signage.
Director of Community Development Kallien noted that MB Bank was never given
a variation for the wall signage. He added that this is a two -step process. InSite is
seeking a text amendment to allow them to have a ground sign and they are seeking
a variation that would allow the proposed ground sign to be placed in another
location. The text amendment alone does not give them the ground sign that they
have proposed.
Trustee Wolin noted that he sent a memo to the Plan Commission and that it
behooves any Trustee or anyone in the Village to do whatever could be done to help
the businesses in the village. These are tough economic times and we want to do
whatever could be done to help people. He is not opposed to the sign, more or less,
which, the Zoning Board of Appeals will address. His concern is the proliferation of
five (5) red signs that are on the building. A personal observation with the way that
it stands makes the building looks like a Christmas decoration and is not the type of
aura that you necessarily want in Oak Brook. There is a very large red sign on the
top of the building facing east toward the Oak Brook Club condominium and serves
virtually no purpose because it can't be seen from 16th Street. A nice letter was
received from the attorney in response to his memo that explains the agreement with
MB Bank to keep the signs, but they would see what can be done. He would
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 3 of 26 July 21, 2008
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encourage InSite to talk with MB Bank and beside the sign on top facing the Oak
Brook Club; the other on the side of the building is overkill and just irritates some
people. You would think that they would not want to irritate the neighbors and
potential customers. He noticed an MB Bank in Hinsdale where the sign is black
and although the standard for MB Bank is red, it is obvious that it is much more
subdued and nicer looking. He would encourage InSite to work with MB Bank.
He was not opposed to a ground sign at that location and one is appropriate, but the
multi - colors should be reviewed. In terms of the text amendment, a ground sign
would be appropriate language to include. He noted that the sign provisions for a
shopping center are very different from those for an office.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that one of the alternatives was to
look at rezoning the property rather than a text amendment. B-1 may have been a
more appropriate zoning.
William Lindeman, 11 Pembroke Lane said that he agreed with Trustee Wolin. He
drove by the property today and on both sides of the street, there is a lot of
landscaping. He disputed the fact that MB Bank was able to negotiate a
continuation of leaving signs in place. He also believes that the signs on the
building are illegal because it is mounted above the top of the building on the
mechanical enclosure. He asked Director of Community Development Kallien to
confirm that.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that he had discussed this
issue with Mr. Lindeman and noted that the B -2 District does not have the same
height requirements as all of the other zoning districts, which is also a deficiency of
the regulations in the B -2 District.
Mr. Lindeman noted that the sign is shown parallel to 16"' Street. He questioned the
need for office buildings to have a list of individual tenants. It is an impossibility
for an office building to list their tenants on a freestanding outdoor sign, which is the
purpose of having an inside registry. Very few office buildings have outside
signage. Although he was not sure how they allocate outside signage, he thought it
would make the most sense to allow it to offices that deal the most prominently with
the general public. He thought the sign was excessively large and the 12" height for
lettering can be read from 600 -700 feet; it did not have to be that large because the
traffic is not fast moving through there so the sign can be reduced considerably in
size. He did not see the need to reduce the setback because it could be maintained
and the sign would still be legible. He commented that there seems to be a phobia
with signage and it's turning Oak Brook into Pottersville (in the Jimmy Stewart
movie where they lost control of the town and it turned into something that we
would not want to live in; and that is what has happened). He gets irritated every
time he goes down 22" d Street and sees the dinky little coffee shop; and shakes his
head and wonders how it got there and does it really fit there. He does not think that
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 4 of 26 July 21, 2008
it fits in with the surroundings. On 16`h Street, there is the Citicorp Bank and the
Oak Brook Club and he thinks the proposed sign would detract from the ambiance
of that section. There are also three office buildings in the Oakbrook Center along
Spring Road. He questioned Director of Community Development Kallien as to
whether the Citicorp, Oakbrook East, Oakbrook North office buildings and the
Renaissance Hotel would be entitled to freestanding signage. He questioned if that
was fair in this competitive market to other office buildings in town, such as on
Commerce and Harger. He suggested that the history of the zoning be looked at and
the possibility that it should be addressed by a zoning change or keeping Oak Brook
stay the way it has been; the way some pretty smart people designed and planned it
before there was this mad rush to create artificial expansion.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that as a result of the
Commercial .Areas Revitalization Plan the Village has retained the firm of Houseal
Lavigne who will be creating Planned Unit Development Regulations and upgrading
the Sign Regulations. When requests like this are received, the current sign code
provides certain impediments that need to be addressed.
Member Tropinski commented that this is a relatively small office building that
would be conducive to 3 or 4 tenants and can appreciate why they would want to
have their names advertised on the buildings. On York Road in Elmhurst there is an
office building there with a sign right on York Road and informs everyone what is in
the building. As a consumer, she finds that information very useful.
Trustee Wolin questioned the reference of "commercial retail development of less
than 5 acres" in the proposed language.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that the Oakbrook Center is
the only other property in the Village zoned B -2. There are several out lots within
the Oakbrook Center, such as for Citibank, Sears and Macy's, but they are under
signage control by mall management. He was not concerned that they would want
to utilize or request additional signage should the amendment be approved.
Member Wolin questioned the requested height for the sign.
Mrs. Morrison responded that the original request reflected only a change in the size
of the lot and tenant names but would still allow 1000 square feet of signage. After
meeting with Village staff, they reduced the amount to round numbers. They are
only proposing to construct the sign as depicted in the application.
Chairwoman Payovich queried the Commission and the Commissioners agreed that
the language should be modified to reflect the size of the proposed sign.
Member Lalmalani questioned where Houseal Lavigne was at in terms of providing
signage guidelines.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK.
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 5 of 26 July 21, 2008
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that it has been under
review for about a month and it may be an approximate 4 -5 month project. Upon
completion, the recommendation would then be presented to the public and then
ultimately back to the Plan Commission, Zoning Board and Village Board to
approve actual amendments to the existing sign code.
Trustee Wolin said that he thought it would be helpful to have the request reviewed
by Houseal Lavigne and have their comments provided for the Zoning Board of
Appeals.
Mrs. Morrison responded that they did send the proposed text amendment and
proposed signage specifications to Houseal Lavigne on June 3, 2008. They received
a call from their office stating that they were giving them a tentative okay, but had
not had a chance to discuss the proposal with zoning staff.
Member Iyer questioned what the impact would be should the request be approved
and was in conflict with the recommendation from Houseal Lavigne and did not
want to see a problem occur later.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that he wanted to hear the
comments from the Commissioners regarding their thoughts and ideas prior to
seeking out comments from the consultant. The consultant has yet to formulate any
final opinions as to what is the appropriate level of signage in Oak Brook, which is
what they are trying to ascertain as part of their research.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that if this were in an office
district, especially a building of this size the requested 10 x 6 sign is not too large.
Member Lalmalani visited the site and the sign proposed is nice, yet there are five
bright red signs on the existing building. He questioned how one tenant has five
signs and then the other tenants would only have one sign.
Larissa Addison, Manager of InSite, responded that when they purchased the
building from MB Bank the signage was already in place. When the sale was
negotiated the sale they ended up on the lease back that they had to leave the
existing signage in place. The lease required that they obtain permits and required
approvals for the signage. Additional signage has not been added since they
acquired the building in June of 2007. She understands the situation and they have
spoken with MB Bank, After hearing the concerns from the Commissioners, they
will continue to see if there is something, they could do to modify the signs,
although they are contractually obligated within the lease agreement to allow MB to
have the signs that were in place. InSite has made a multi - million dollar investment
in the building and they have added $4.5 million in improvements on their floor
alone. Permits have been issued by the Village to do a lobby modification and an
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 6 of 26 July 21, 2008
__�z
exterior modification to the rear of the building in the amount of $1.2 million to
provide for a better aesthetic that faces toward Oak Brook Club. They are making a
huge investment in this building and are trying to attract additional high -end tenants
on the office side. They have had tenants come through the building and one of the
comments made, is that they do not want to come to the building because they
would not have any identity at the building. This national tenant would have been
great for the building. Signage has been a problem, which has led them to seek the
text amendment to move forward for their own sign.
Chairwoman Payovich questioned when they would actually be able to make some
changes with MB Bank.
Ms. Addison responded that they could not commit to any changes. They would
continue to approach them, but could not force them into a position of removing the
signage as long as they secured the proper required pen-nits through the village. It is
difficult because MB Bank has had the signs in place for several years.
Member Iyer asked whether there would be a problem in proposing only two colors
on the ground sign rather than multiple colors in order to tone it down.
Director of Community Development Kallien commented that in his discussion with
representatives of the sign company it was stated that any inclusion of color might
be problematic and discussed the desire of the removal of color.
Ms. Addison commented that they would be amenable to changing that. They
realize it is an office building not a retail strip.
Motion by Member Tropinski, seconded by Member Lalmalani to recommend
approval a text amendment to allow a ground sign on properties less than five acres
in the B -2 District to be added to the Zoning Ordinance. They recommended that
the proposed text to be amended to allow a total of 63 square feet of signage on
either side, totally no more than 126 square feet and the sign height is not to exceed
10 feet 6 inches.
a. Recommend to the Zoning Board of Appeals that the applicant present more
neutral color on the sign.
b. Recommend that comments be obtained from Houseal Lavigne on the
proposed signage and provided to the Zoning Board of Appeals.
c. Recommend that the proposed sign would not appear- to look like a building
directory.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
Ayes: 4 — Members Iyer, Lalmalani, Tropinski and Chairwoman Payovich
Absent: 3 -- Members Knitter, Sharma and Singhal
Nays: 0 --- Motion Carried.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK.
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 7 of 26 July 21, 2008
B. FALCO — 2901 OAK BROOK ROAD — MAP AMENDMENT — TO REZONE
THE PROPERTY FROM R -2 TO R -3
Director of Community Development Kallien provided an overview of the request.
Dana Park had a similar request for a map amendment from R -2 to R -3, which was
approved. The Falco property is located just east of that subdivision and is seeking
a similar map amendment.
Joluz Brechin, attorney for the applicant reviewed the history of the parcel. The
property is 4.69 acres. In 2006, they requested and received approval of a 3 -lot
subdivision, which included the lot that the Falco's live at as well as a lot for a
private road. Tonight they are seeking a recommendation of approval to rezone the
property from R -2 to R -3, which would allow the inclusion of one additional lot.
The request from Dana Park submitted significant testimony concerning the
economic unfeasibility of developing the property as R -2. They are echoing the
same theme because in this real estate market which has declined somewhat
precipitously since 2006. The R -2 zoning just does not work because of the costs
involved. Essentially if the property is zoned R -3, the subdivision development
costs get divided by three lots as opposed to two lots, which brings down the actual
price of the improvements and also decreases the prospective profit to Mr. Falco.
R -2 lacks commercial viability. They have attempted to market the property and it
has been unsuccessful. The reason is somewhat similar to the Dana Park
Subdivision. There is a lot of flood plain and compensatory storage required by
these two subdivisions. Because of that, the usable area of the lots is diminished. In
this market place today, if someone is buying an R -2 one -acre lot, the buyer insists
upon being able to use almost that entire entire acre. When there are requirements
to meet code as far as compensatory and flood plain storage, the area is diminished,
which then decreases the sale ability of the property. The property is located within
the Downers Grove High School District and that fact diminishes the sale ability of
the properly under R -2. Under R -3 zoning, it is still not necessarily a winner, but
there is a reasonable chance that the property can be marketed, developed and sold.
They believe R -3 is the appropriate zoning for this property based upon its
characteristics. If the Village Board ultimately approves this request, they are
required to come back to the Plan Commission with a proposed plat of subdivision,
which they are working on. They thought that it would be premature to the Plan
Commission until the Village Board approved the request for rezoning.
Mr. Brechin noted that the zoning amendment factors have been submitted as part of
the application. He addressed the standards for a map amendment as follows:
1. Character of the neighborhood
RESPONSE: Except for the kennel across the street on Meyers Road, and the
Village pumping station on the south side of Oak Brook Road, the neighborhood is
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 8 of 26 July 21, 2008
FALCO - 2901
OAK BROOK
ROAD - MAP
AMENDMENT -
R -2 to R -3
uniformly single family residential, which has been developed with houses that are
between 20 -30 years of age. They are hoping that Mr. Drukas is able to develop his
property shortly with new residential homes directly to the west.
2. The extent to which property values are diminished by the particular
zoning restrictions.
In light of the very difficult market times, there are economic conditions, along with
the impact of the Downers Grove School District and the diminished area lost by
virtue of the flood plain and compensatory storage requirements. The primary issue
is the usability of the lot, when a lot is one acre in size; so much is entrapped due to
water storage that presents a significant disincentive to prospective buyers. They
believe that R -3 would help to diminish that.
3. The extent to which the removal of the Existing Limitations 'Would
Depreciate the Value of Other Property in the Area.
The properties that abut this property are zoned R -3. They do not believe that R -3
zoning is going to depreciate other property values in the area.
4. The suitability of the Property for Zoned Purposes
The property is not well suited for R -2 zoning because experience tells them that R-
2 development is not commercially viable due to the unique characteristics of this
property. This property suffers from the same issues that the Drukas property did.
5. Existing Uses and Zoning of Nearby Properties.
With the exception of the kennel across the street, all of the property is single
family.
6. The Length of Time Under the Existing Zoning that the property has
remained unimproved considered in the context of land development.
Although the subdivision for three lots was -approved in 2006, it was never
implemented because it was not commercially feasible. The addition of another loft
will given them a struggling chance of developing the property successfully.
7. The Relative Gain to the Public as Compared to the Hardship Imposed
on the Individual Property Owner.
The hardship to the owner is significant in that the original design concept, while
fully compliant to R -2, has become commercially unviable despite the owner's
attempts to comply with the original zoning requirements and investments to
alleviate the marketplace's objections. The gain to the public lies in the increased
probability that this property would be developed and the increased assessed
valuation is available to the village as well as the tax revenues that are shaded with
the improvement of property.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 9 of 26 July 21, 2008
W-00AN
8. The Extent to Which the Proposal Promotes the Health, Safety, Morals
or General Welfare of the Public.
They believe that approval of the amendment will expedite development of the site,
which is totally consistent with the goals of the village, the Comprehensives Plan
and good planning principles.
9. The Relationship of the Proposed Use to the Comprehensive Plan.
Single family residential is totally consistent to the Comprehensive Plan for this site
in this neighborhood of the village.
10. Community Need for the Use Proposed by the Property Owners.
It is always good to have a variety of different types of housing stock as well as
different ages. A lot of people like new construction and this will provide that
option for them. They know there are a lot of existing houses available on the
market that is just not moving. They are hopeful that this location will be an
attraction to people who want to move into Oak Brook and not want a $2.5 million
plus home, but would rather have something in the $1.8 to $2.3 million ranges.
In addition to the notices sent to residents by the village, Mr. Falco sent out a letter
telling the neighbors what they were doing. Only one response was received to date.
Joe Falco, son of the property owner, said that they have lived in the house on the
property since the early 1980's. Prior to that, they lived in Ginger Creek and have
been in Oak Brook for over 40 years. Growing up in Oak Brook, he would like to
continue to be part of the community. This plan will hopefully allow him to move
back into Oak Brook, because he would live at one of the properties. In the past,
they had an approved plan for an R -2 development, but it was not feasible at that
time. They have a new plan and based upon the revenues, they believe it can be
marketable. Pepitone Realtors did a market analysis, and they believe if the map
amendment is granted to rezone the property to R -3, then this plan could work.
Developed as R -2 lots, with a 6500 square foot house the asking price would be
roughly $2.9 million. If developed as R -3, the base price with a 4500 square foot
house would be around $2 million, which is much more desirable in the market
place right now and would be viable. They cannot continue with the previous plan,
which is why they are seeking consideration for a snap amendment.
A brief summary marketing analysis was distributed to the Commissioners showing
the sales history over the last 12 months for properties sold within the Downers
Grove School District. In those 12 months, there were 4 listings of property in the
$2.2 to $3.2 million range. Of those, none were sold and none were under contract.
That is one of the reasons why they believe the amendment to R -3 would be
beneficial to them as well as the village. Comparing the home prices from $1.2 to
$2.2 million ranges, the numbers are not great, but there is activity. Of 38 houses
listed, 6 were sold.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 10 of 26 July 21, 2008
Simon Sheers, 43 Windsor, resident of York Woods said that he was at a loss as to
what benefit the subdivision would be to the village because the village does not
collect taxes, so he questioned how more houses in Oak Brook would be a benefit.
Mr. Brechin responded that it would be fair to say that the more housing variety
provided in the village, including new housing, is a benefit to the community. For
people that want to move into the community or from one part to another part of the
community. Although there is no general corporate tax levied by the village, there
are other taxes paid and the increased assessed valuation goes to support
government and lessen the individual burden of existing homes.
The audience made no other comments.
Member Tropinski said that .when the previous plat was approved under R -2 zoning,
there were considerable problems with the property due to flood plain. On the
conceptual subdivision plan, she questioned whether lot 3 would be marketable due
to the small space allowed to build a house. There is a very large detention pond
and a large strip of land that goes behind lot 4 that would be of no use to the owner
of lot 3. Lot 4 has very little buildable area, and she did not see how these two lots
as proposed would be more marketable.
Mr. Brechin noted that they have not yet applied for a subdivision and when they do,
they would have something more than a concept plan, which would be appropriate
at that time to discuss the particulars of the plat. When they propose the final plat,
the plan would have full compliance with the R -3 requirements and reasonable sized
buildable areas to attract buyers for the property. They will address the comments
from Village Engineer Durfey in regard to the irregularity of lot 3. It is in their best
interest to improve the characteristic of the subdivision consistent with some of the
comments made and they will do that.
Trustee Wolin said that he had mixed emotions on this property. The village may
find it difficult to turn down the request for R -3 since the Dana Park property was
rezoned adjacent to it. If the Village Board would approve the request, he would
encourage Mr. Falco to give serious consideration as to whether he really wants to
develop the property. As it stands, it is beautiful, but may not when it is divided as
it would need to be. He agreed with Member Tropinski that the lots would not be
very attractive when the yards would not be that usable.
Member Tropinski commented that this property had more flood plain than the Dana
Park subdivision.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that if the applicant were
successful with the R -3 zoning, they would need to go through the subdivision
process, which would require the review of the detention, retention, walls, lot layout,
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 11 of 26 July 21, 2008
etc. Village Engineer Durfey brought up a very good point that the shape of the one
conceptual lot may be problematic.
Chairwoman Payovich said that the recommendation is for the map amendment and
the concept, but the actual plat would be reviewed under that process.
Member Iyer questioned if approval of the map amendment were given would that
present a problem at the time the applicant applies for a final plat.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that at the time of final plat
the applicant is required to design a subdivision that meets the zoning ordinance and
subdivision requirements. The market may dictate some of the issues shown in the
conceptual plan.
Mr. Brechin said that they recognize that if the Village Board approves the map
amendment to R -3, the applicant still has the burden to provide a subdivision plat
that conforms to all of the village ordinances and regulations. They also recognize
that is going to be a challenge, but they are willing to take it on and work with
village staff and create a product that everyone can be proud of
Motion by Member Tropinski, seconded by Member Iyer to recommend approval of
a map amendment to rezone the property at 2901 Oak Brook Road from R -2 to R -3.
ROLL CALL VOTE:
Ayes: 4 — Members Iyer, Lalmalani, Tropinski and Chairwoman Payovich
Absent: 3 -- Members Knitter, Sharma and Singhal
Nays: 0 — Motion Carried.
C. TIME SQUARE PROPERTIES, LLC — 2121 BUTTERFIELD ROAD —
SPECIAL USE — DRIVE THRU LANE FOR RESTAURANT AND SPECIAL
USE — OUTDOOR DINING AREA
Director of Community Development Kallien provided an overview of the request.
The applicant purchased the property last year and would like to redevelop it even
though it is a very small lot. They are seeking special uses in order to add a drive -
thru lane and an outdoor dining area.
Peter Savenok, 1877 S. Orchard Road, Wheaton, Illinois, applicant and owner of the
property said that they would like to change the rainbow - colored building. They
acquired the property almost a year ago. They found out that it was contaminated
and needed to be cleaned. It took about 8 months to go through the EPA process in
order to clean the property. They could not prepare drawings for the site until the
EPA report was received. Three months were spent preparing plans for the site and
have already provided revisions to those in order to comply with the Village codes
and requirements. The property is located on a very busy intersection at Butterfield
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 12 of 26 July 21, 2008
TIME SQUARE
PROP. - 2121
BUTTERFIELD
RD - SPECIAL
USE - OUTDOOR
DINING AND
DRIVE -THRU
and Midwest Road and is a rhombus shaped lot. They tried to work within the
existing building and parcel to create something functional that looked good and
complied with all Village codes and Health Department requirements. It was very
difficult and the engineers, architect and landscape architects spent many hours
trying to create something functional and good for the neighborhood as well as to
make sense out of the investment so that it would not be a losing project.
They are seeking two variances and two special uses. The special use for the drive -
through enters the property from Midwest Road and as planned, they should be able
to stack 8 or 9 cars. The special use for the outdoor dining area will be located at
the front of the building. Over the last several years, all of the new restaurants
provide outdoor dining, if possible, because it is convenient and people enjoy dining
outdoors. They believe it would be a huge benefit for the neighbors and for the
restaurant to be successful. They need to seek a variance to allow a freestanding
sign because the lot is undersized. The sign rendering is not the final design or
color. The sign would help to identify the restaurant before people drive past it or
see the building last minute and change lanes to access the restaurant. They are also
seeking a variance to reduce the setback requirement for the landscaping.
Chairwoman Payovich asked if there were questions from the audience.
Charles Mueller, 110 Schiller Street, Elmhurst, Illinois said that he was representing
one of the adjacent landowners. He noted that the lot is less than one -half acre and
along with a 2500 square foot building, required parking, and access onto and off of
the property, the issue with adding in excess of the planned 8 cars being stacked in
line would create a huge problem on Midwest Road heading north. When that
occurs, it is going to greatly diminish the value of the two properties adjacent to the
site. There are only 22 parking spots and minus employee parking, there would only
be 18 parking spots available on the site. He did not think the plan should move
forward because it did not appear to be well thought out. He noted that the location
is challenging and would like to see the existing building taken down, but it seems
like they are trying to put 10 pounds of material into a 5 -pound bag.
Vivien Yu, resident and owner of the building located adjacent to the building at
1919 Midwest Road said that when she first bought the building 10 years ago, her
building was an eyesore and that they followed all of the rules and regulations and it
is now a beautiful building. She said that the design of the proposed building is
beautiful, but the only problem they have with the project is that IDOT has opened a
third lane from Butterfield Road to 22'd Street, which will increase a lot of traffic. It
is very difficult for them to get out of their building now. If there are more than 8
cars in the drive -thru, traffic will back up and it will be chaotic to the public and the
neighbors. The existing building is an eyesore and they have been very patient and
have not complained. She welcomes the change but does not believe that the village
has to give up a lot in order to accomplish a little. Oak Brook is a prestigious suburb
and the regulations have to be followed in order to preserve its image. It is not fair
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOD
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 13 of 26 July 21, 2008
11_�
to her that her next -door neighbor would not have to provide the landscaping that
Oak Brook requires, just so they could have a drive up. She did not think that it
would be fair to the public or the neighbors and it would create a huge traffic
problem.
Director of Community Development Kallien asked whether it would address some
of her concerns if the village limited the circulation on the property to enter from
Midwest and exit east onto Butterfield.
Mrs. Yu responded that it would not. She had concerns as to how many
people /tables could be in the 2500 square foot building as well as how many
employees. The flow into and out of the property is a chaotic situation and there are
only 18 parking spaces.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that the Village's
requirements for parking on this site is based upon 66.67 parking spaces per 1000
square feet, which means they would need about 30 spaces per code. As part of the
request, the applicant is going to try to get a shared parking arrangement with an
adjacent property. If he would be unable to do that then he would be back in front
of the Village to seek a variation.
Mrs. Yu questioned the maximum occupancy allowed within the restaurant.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that the occupancy load
would be determined by the Fire Department based upon different factors.
Mrs. Yu said that these were her concerns and added that it is a huge traffic
problem; and that the opening of the third lane will make the traffic worse.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that the use of the property is
being maintained and the one significant change is adding the drive -thru. The
applicant is trying to make do with a very difficult situation. The property is not laid
out correctly. If the building is demolished, they would need an additional set of
variations in order to construct a new building.
Mrs. Yu commented that she understood that, but as a neighbor and an investor did
not believe, she should suffer just because they need to expand. They have
expanded for the better, not for the worst. If they add a drive -thru, she would also
suffer. It would not be fair if they would not provide the required landscaping.
With food, there are all kinds of problems, so the landscaping is needed to protect
her as a neighbor, from the smell, and from the dust from the drive -thru. She did not
think it would be fair. If they are seeking additional parking, she could assure that
the other adjacent building is a 24 -hour surveillance building and they do not want
anyone in the parking lot, so she would be the one to suffer. She would also have
the expense for the wear and tear on the maintenance of her parking lot, just because
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 14 of 26 July 21, 2008
41_�
someone wants to put a massive restaurant in a small lot that is less than one -half
acre. She asked that the Commission give it some thought to determine if this
would be the right kind of improvement that the village is looking for.
Chairwoman Payovich noted that the applicant could not use her parking lot or
another lot without an agreement with the property owner.
William Lindeman, 11 Pembroke Lane said that he agreed with just about
everything said by Mrs. Yu. He noted that there were important agenda items
before the Commission and that there were three empty Commission seats. He said
that it did not appear that there had been a lot of study done by the Commission
regarding the items on the agenda. He thought the Commission should be
concerned with the whole package, not just the special uses requested because they
are all tied together. He did not think the Commission had received the necessary
infonnation to approve some of the issues before it at this meeting. He thought the
Commission should consider having a greater number of Commissioners present
when some of the decisions are acted upon.
Chairwoman Payovich thanked Mr. Lindeman for his comments and stated that the
people on the Plan Commission attempt to be very knowledgeable about everything
that comes before them. Looking back at the Plan Commission records, the
discussions by the Commission take into consideration everyone's concerns. In
most instances, the decisions are very close to being unanimous. They do look at all
the issues and concerns from the applicant to neighboring property owners and
residents of the Village that may not be neighboring property owners.
Mr. Savenok said that in regards to the parking requirements he had a signed letter
of intent for 12 additional parking spaces, which would be used for the employees.
They did build an oversized kitchen in order to accommodate the drive -thru.
Almost half of the building is kitchen in order to serve a very fast and efficient
drive -thru. There will never be a problem in the drive -thru and if necessary there is
an area, the cars could wait. A drive -thru is very important for this location because
it meets the today's needs as a fast food restaurant.
Mark Richards, Civil Engineer, Webster, McGrath & Ahlberg Ltd., said that the
impact of this project is a very positive one. The existing imperviousness on the site
is 18,317 square feet. The proposed impervious area has been reduced to 16,960
square feet. The existing curb line against the southern boundary of the property has
been moved further north so that the variance request for landscaping is very
minimal; it is only along the drive -thru lane. The overall impact of the project is to
add 1357 square feet of green space on the site. He noted that once cars have
entered the site and are stacking in the drive -thru, there is additional width, which
could allow three cars, so there is relief provided by the extra width in the lane. The
minimum Oak Brook standard is 27 feet. In his opinion that amount of stacking is
typical.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 15 of 26 July 21, 2008
Ron Guest, Landscape Architect, said that currently there is nothing on the property.
There is green space surrounding the property, such as grass. They have
incorporated additional shrubbery according to Village code, along Midwest and
Butterfield Road. Additional landscaping is provided along the easterly property
line and trees have been added to the site. No landscaping exists currently along the
southern property line, except what exists on the adjacent property to the south.
They have enhanced the area with additional landscaping and added screening
around the trash receptacle. Landscaping has been added to the front of the building
as well. The landscaping has been increased by 100 %, and the building is improved.
The landscaping variation is for the area where the drive -thru comes along next to
the building.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that some of the comments made
were good comments. The Village Engineer and he have spent a lot of time on the
project. It is a problem site; it is very small and the structure currently located there
is not in compliance with Village codes. The applicant has needed to work around
many issues. Mr. Savenok has been very helpful in providing the revisions to the
documents as requested, but he asked that the matter be continued in order to
address some issues, such as occupancy. He would work with the Fire Department
to identify the actual occupancy of the building. It appears that there are
approximately 20 parking spaces and 24 seats in the restaurant. A significant
majority of the building is the kitchen, which has been mandated by the DuPage
County Health Department. When the York Tavern applied for a modification to its
building, most of that was driven by the Health Department in order to meet its
requirements for space, cooking facilities, storage, refrigeration, etc. When those
improvements were made, it now meets Health Department requirements. This site
has the same dilemma because the previous kitchen did not meet code and the
Health Department ultimately closed it down. It may seem excessive, but that may
be mandated by another governmental entity.
He would also like to review with the Village Engineer some of the vehicular
movements on the site, based on some of the comments made by the audience.
Whatever happens on the site, we want to make sure they are made better. The
applicant has made some large steps forward to address some of the concerns and
there may be further tweaking that could be done.
Trustee Wolin thanked the applicant for planning to tear down D's Diggity Dogs
and to replace it with a very attractive building. The most problematic thing is the
drive -thru. The entrance on Midwest Road as shown the site plan does not appear to
work. The civil engineer said that there is a 33 -foot width there, but the way that it
is drawn, with cars stacking up there, it does not appear that there is enough in and
out access provided. He asked the area be reviewed by the Engineering Department.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 16 of 26 July 21, 2008
Member Lalmalani said that he was concerned about the issue of safety, with cars
entering and leaving the site. While the other issues are reviewed, safety on the site
should be reviewed as well. Anything that is constructed would be better than what
exists on the site.
Charles Mueller said that it is a challenging project and he requested that the
Commissioners and the engineer review the project. It seems like the engineering
may be bending over backwards to help the applicant, but he is not helping those
that are adjacent to the property. It will be a huge nightmare with the drive- -thru.
Any restaurant with a drive -thru is going to have more cars backed up at lunchtime.
It will be a complete disaster. If a bigger kitchen were built, that would mean there
would be a lot more drive -thru traffic. The Portillo's in Elmhurst has double lanes
of traffic and plenty of stacking space. This is an accident waiting to happen. He
requested the Commission not take anyone's word, but to go out and use a little
common sense.
Mr. Savenok said that the Health Department required additional dry storage in the
kitchen. They are providing an oversized kitchen and very limited seats in the
restaurant. The restaurant may not be completely booked, but the seats area
provided for mere convenience to allow people to sit inside or outside. They are not
going to be like Portillo's, he would wish that, but it will not happen.
Christopher Krupp, Krupp Associates Architects, said that they have already been
approved by the Health Department for the design. In order to meet its requirements
there is a very large addition off to the left and the right, but they are for storage
only. Almost half of the building is kitchen and storage. The building, outside of
those additions, is exactly the same size and footprint of the existing building. The
concern that people have is that they are imagining it to be much larger than it really
is; but it is just a better - looking building. The Fire Department will determine the
seating allowed. The area for seating is fairly small. The kitchen was intentionally
made large so that the drive -thru would work quickly. The aesthetic improvement is
tremendous. Additional parking is going to be provided elsewhere for all of the
employees.
Mrs. Yu said that her main concern is for safety. If they are going to put in this kind
of investment, they want a busy lunch and dinner. She asked how it would impact
the neighbors if there were 11 -12 cars stacked up. It does not make sense to have
the drive -thru lane enter from Midwest and exit onto Butterfield. She and their
tenants would be locked onto their property. There are all kinds of professionals in
her building, including doctors and patients. It is difficult currently to get across the
street. The applicant said that they would have 6 employees, D's had 5 employees
working; it does not make sense. It is a beautiful plan, but it does not make sense
and does not want to see a monster created.
VILLAGE OF OAK. BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 17 of 26 July 21, 2008
Andy Savenok, represented Savenok Properties. They will have a big kitchen,
which will speed up the process. They are also going to have the best POS system
in the industry. They went to the National Restaurant Association show and are
working with companies to provide the fastest and most efficient point of sale
system, which would further speed up the traffic. It is illogical to claim that the
additional lane provided by IDOT would create chaos; it has been added, in fact to
make traffic go faster. Starbucks is a huge conglomerate and he goes there every
day to get his coffee. At the most, he has seen 5 or 6 cars in their drive -thru. To
suggest that they would have more than 9 cars stacked, when they will have the best
possible POS system, and a large kitchen is ridiculous.
It was the consensus of the Commission to give staff additional time.
Member Tropinski moved, seconded by Member Iyer to continue the matter to the
next regular meeting. ROLL CALL VOTE:
Ayes: 4 — Members Iyer, Lalmalani, Tropinski and Chairwoman Payovich
Absent: 3 — Members Knitter, Sharma and Singhal
Nays: 0 -- Motion Carried.
Chairwoman Payovich called for a 5- minute recess. The meeting reconvened at
9:41 p.m.
D. MACY' S — TEXT AMENDMENT — AMEND TEXT TO PERMIT MACY'S - TEXT
AMEND -
OUTDOOR SALES EVENTS IN THE B (BUSINESS) DISTRICTS OUTDOOR
SALES
John Brechin, attorney for the applicant, said that the applicant was seeking approval
of a text amendment as enumerated on the staff report on page 6.a of the case file.
He noted that they are not married to the language as proposed and should the Plan
Commission be of the opinion that some should be tweaked or changed, they do not
have an objection. They are seeking a mechanism in the zoning ordinance, which
presently does not exist, to allow for commercial retail ventures to have sales outside
of the traditional permanent building. It would be a nice added feature for Macy's
and other similarly situated retailers and the direct beneficiary would not only be the
customers but also the Village.
The text amendment is worded in such a way that the Village Board, on a case -by-
case basis, would review any temporary permit. The permit would be of a limited
duration and the set up and take down of the tents would have to occur in a very
rapid period. The Village Board would not only review it with compliance to the
ordinance, but would have the ability to impose whatever conditions would be
appropriate for each particular event.
Curt Moody, Store Manager, Macy's Furniture Gallery, has been the manager of the
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 18 of 26 July 21, 2008
Oak Brook store for 2 1/z years. Prior to that, he was the manager at the Vernon Hills
and Lake Forest stores for Marshall Fields and has been with Fields for 37 years.
When he was on the North Shore, the Old Orchard mall would do this kind of event
for many years. The numbers that he would hear in terms of sales revenue that came
out of these events has always left an impression on him; $2.5 million out of a rug
event when things were going gangbusters was a reality. When he came to Oak
Brook, he wanted to do something like that and the response was that the Oak Brook
Zoning Ordinance did not allow that venue. He spent some time partnering and
meeting with the Village talking about his idea and building an event that they
would want to do with the brand character of the Village and Macy's. It would be
good for the community, for their customers, store staff to help make money in a
very down economy. It would be an opportunity to drive additional business,
partner with their sister store in the mall, and have some fun with it and see how
much business they can do.
They believe the sales would be a nice healthy number that they would like to
perpetuate if successful. If allowed to put this on, they would be open to making it
as good as they can make it for their business partners, the community and the
village.
The tent would be about 10,000 square feet. They have had a long - standing
relationship with folks that have done these types of events with Marshall Fields at
Old Orchard, Woodfield and Northbrook Shopping Centers. Those villages are not
particularly easy to please on some of the temporary situations. They have a lot of
experiences and very high standards as to what they would like to do. Oriental area
rugs would be the product, done a couple of times a year. The merchandise is the
product that they have within their store. It is first run merchandise that they carry
and it would be sold by their existing team during regular business operating hours.
Looking at the zoning ordinance they would operate the tent set back away from the
building itself and away from 22'd Street. It would be tucked back on the eastern
side of the parking lot. He reviewed a large site plan showing the location of the
tent in relationship to the parking and the building. There are 220 parking spaces
servicing the Macy's Furniture Gallery. On any given busy Saturday there are no
more than 50 spaces used. The tent will displace about 50 parking spaces. The
employee base has shrunken significantly, and there is overflow parking on the
employee side of the building. There is more than enough parking to accommodate
those that would be coming to visit the event. All safety issues will be addressed.
Joe Tedesco, General Manager and Principal with BBT Rugs, Park Ridge, and they
are a permanent lease partner with Marshall Fields and now Macy's. They manage
the entire in store departments. They are there on a day -to -day basis. They are not
there just to do tent sales. In Chicago they have a staff of about 30 people who work
every day within the Macy's stores. They have done over 30 tent sales in Chicago,
Minnesota and Michigan and they handle the north division for Macy's.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 19 of 26 July 21, 2008
The product is the exact same product that is carried in the store. Given the unique
individuality of the pieces, it gives the consumer a better opportunity to find the
exact piece they are looking for. It is a way to create some excitement around a sale.
In a 10 -day period., they spend between $50- 75,000 in advertising that is directed to
that store and that event. Based upon his experience with other tent events, not only
are their sales dollars increased but other stores around them, restaurants and gas
stations also have increased revenue from the event. They have had an event every
year in Old Orchard and the shop owners and restaurants are excited when they have
their event because their sales go up as well during the event. It is their belief that
Oak Brook will experience the same thing. They staff it with people from the stores
that work there every day. He is personally and his regional manager is on site.
They stay within the regular store hours. They meet with the Fire Department to
make sure they are within the code. They provide full time security as well as
coordinate it with the local police department. If allowed, they can participate, but
some towns do not allow their police officers to work extra hours. When they close,
full time security is provided over night until the store opens in the morning. The
tent is very upscale, there is a wood floor in the middle and they put down pvc
flooring to control any water issues. He has done this for over 10 years without
incident. They have done well with it and with the economy the way that it is; we
need to find some other ways to do things. They hope that the village will see fit to
approve it. It is their belief that it would be a win -win for everyone and would
generate some additional sales tax revenue for the Village.
Jim Gallagher, Party Time Productions, Addison, said that their portion of the event
is facilitating the permit for the event. They take care of all the municipality
requirements. They put up fresh inventory as depicted in the photos. Everything is
grounded; it is weather tight for storms; temporary power is coming in to the tent
that handles the power for lighting, cash registers, and night security. Everything
meets code, flame certificates are provided, which goes through the permit process
in order for the event to take place.
Mr. Brechin said that safety is of the utmost importance and will be maximized.
There is full traffic circulation available around the tent for police and fire.
Everything provided is within the buildable area. They recognize that there will not
be any additional temporary advertising signs. On the busiest day without the tent
sale, no more than 20 percent of the parking lot is utilized. There will not be traffic
or parking problems. There will not be an access problem because there is stoplight
located there.
Mr. Brechin noted that the zoning amendment factors have been submitted as part of
the application. He addressed the standards for a text amendment as follows:
1. Character of the neighborhood
RESPONSE: The character of the neighborhood is commercial, retail, and hotel
across the street. The only residential nearby is across 1 -88.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 20 of 26 July 21, 2008
2. The extent to which property values are diminished by the particular
zoning restrictions.
They think the amendment will be beneficial to them and village wide will
maximize their ability to generate sales and to attract people that would hopefully be
buyers. One of the advantages of the tent is that the rugs can be laid out fully to get
a better idea of the color scheme and how it might fit in the homes decor, as opposed
to 20 -30 rolled up rugs where only a small portion is seen.
3. The extent to which the removal of the Existing Limitations Would
Depreciate the Value of Other Property in the Area.
It has been testified that when these events are held other businesses are positively
impacted, such as the gas stations, restaurants, etc.
4. The suitability of the Property for Zoned Purposes
The property is over three acres in size. On the busiest day there is plenty of space.
It is very well situated. The amount and location of parking as well as access to the
signalized intersection.
5. Existing Uses and Zoning of Nearby Properties.
As described in number 1.
6. The Length of Time Under the Existing Zoning that the property has
remained unimproved considered in the context of land development.
Not applicable.
7. The Relative Gain to the Public as Compared to the Hardship Imposed
on the Individual Property Owner.
If the Village Board ultimately approves the amendment they are proposing, there
will be an ability to provide an alternative venue for products that consumers might
like. The benefit to the village is if people buy the products, it would generate more
sales tax. Every municipality is struggling to find ways to keep sales tax levels from
going down because many people are cutting back from all socio economic areas.
8. The Extent to Which the Proposal Promotes the Health, Safety, Morals
or General Welfare of the Public.
They believe that approval of the amendment will not have any negative impact and
would be a beneficial addition to the Zoning Ordinance. The necessary discretion is
reserved to the Village Board to review the proposed events to make sure that they
will come forth with all ordinance requirements.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 21 of 26 July 21, 2008
9. The Relationship of the Proposed Use to the Comprehensive Plan.
It is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and how it relates to sales. It is just
not in a permanent structure.
10. Community Need for the Use Proposed by the Property Owners.
It will be beneficial to the public by providing another alternative and generating
interest to attract people to Oak Brook. As is well known, this is not the only
business on 22'd Street corridor. Whatever traffic is attracted would ultimately be
attracted and good for the Village.
Mr. Moody said that they thought $500,000 to 750,000 would be a good sales goal
for the first try. There have been many cases where they have done over a million
dollars and over time this could build. They are hoping that if approved it would not
be a one -time event. If successful, they would perpetuate it and grow it.
William Lindeman, I I Pembroke Lane said that he believes that a business that
comes to ask for help should be a good neighbor. Macy's has failed to maintain the
landscaping on the portion of their property that extends from their entryway to
Route 83, as well as the parkway between their property and the curb lines on 22 "a
and Route 83. He asked what something like this would do to the image of the
village. The village is looked at like a top -notch community with high quality
stores. He drove through Northbrook, they had a tent, and he asked himself if they
were having a garage sale in the Northbrook mall, so he turned in there and he
believes that it may have been a Macy's store. He questioned how many people
going down 22'd Street or Route 83 would wonder that the economy was hitting Oak
Brook pretty hard and was now having garage sales, with oriental rugs no less. They
may think that it is probably a going out of business sale that would go on for five
years like most of the other oriental rug sales that are encountered. He questioned
whether the remaining 80 percent parking spaces available would be sufficient to
accommodate the expected customer turnout that they anticipate. Once they put up
a tent, the next -door neighbor Costco is going to want to do the same thing. In other
cities, they have hot dogs and vendors, something like what is now being allowed in
the Oakbrook Center. It just gets out of control and diminishes the quality of the
village and the perception that people have of the village, that is the type of thing
that needs to be considered more so than what the revenue would be or any
hardships that may occur.
Mr. Brechin said that the remaining parking left would be able to handle three times
that crowd minimum.
Mr. Moody said that there are 120 spaces and the advertising would be what they
have for a big furniture sale. They are allowing for more than double the spaces for
the duration of the event.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 22 of 26 July 21, 2008
Mr. Brechin said that most people realize that the vast majority of communities,
under limited circumstance permit outside sales, such as sidewalk sales. Elmhurst
and other communities do it. The other thing to be pointed out is the quality of the
tent. It is not some camping tent. He remembers experiences in this village where
he would not only have to change his shoes but his socks as well, because it was
wet. A floor is being provided so that there is a gap between the floor and the
ground to provide for drainage. This is not like a pick up truck on the side of the
road selling artwork for $3.27. These are not rugs that would be bought with a $20
bill, or three $20's. If people think this is degrading of Oak Brook, then they do not
know what it is. What is being proposed is not a degradation of anything. It is
another opportunity to bring people in, to attract their attention, their interest and
hopefully their dollars.
Director of Community Development Kallien asked for the total number of parking
spaces available on the site.
Mr. Moody responded that 220 spaces are available.
Trustee Wolin said that there are pluses and minuses. The applicant is correct that at
this particular time, sales are very important and Oak Brook's sales are down just
like everyone else's. If the event helps Macy's, then it is something positive for
Macy's and positive for the Village. The property is unique in that on the east side
of the building there is a massive parking lot that virtually gets no use. He passes
the property often and has never seen anyone use the east side parking lot and the
tent would be back far from the road. Some residents will object, however, the nice
thing about this opportunity is that it is a one -time deal. If it works out it can be
done again. If not, then it never has to be done again.
Director of Community Development Kallien noted that the way the language is
written every applicant would submit documents to the village. Ultimately, it would
go to the Village Board and all meetings are held in public and are not approved by
staff, but would be approved by the elected officials.
Trustee Wolin said that this is a unique site and at Costco, there would not be room
for a tent. As other retailers would come forward, they would have to qualify as
Macy's would.
Member Lalmalani questioned where does it end; there may be others that could set
up smaller tents. He questioned if there would be guidelines; or would Oak Brook
be converted to a city of tents. There should be a limit set to the number of tents that
can be set up.
Mr. Brechin said that the text was set up to accommodate that. If there is not enough
parking, or it cannot be maintained within the buildable area, the Village Board will
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK.
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 23 of 26 July 21, 2008
not approve any such request. It is a reasonable standard. The cost of the tent rental
for 14 days is over $20,000. It is a first class product, which is what Oak Brook
deserves. They have tried to provide enough discretion in the proposed text so that
the Village Board could look at location, traffic movement, public safety, and all
other relevant factors so that if a site such as Costco does not have enough room
would probably be denied.
Member Iyer asked if there would be generators.
Mr. Gallagher responded that there would be a Whisper Quiet roughly a 30 kw
generator that runs no louder than an outdoor air conditioner. For night security
there is a very small ancillary 2 hp generator to run nighttime lighting. These
generators are movie studio quality that is used 10 -15 feet away from filming.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that a request like this would be
required to meet the noise ordinance.
Member Iyer asked how long the event would take.
Mr. Brechin responded that the text was written for 14 days in order to allow time
for setting up and taking down the tent. It should be decided on a case -by -case basis
based upon the nature of the product, the location of the property and the need of the
petitioner. It gives the Village Board the requisite discretion to make the appropriate
decision in their collective opinion.
Member Iyer cautioned that if it is approved, it sets a precedent and we need to
insure that it does not unfairly deny other people who come forward with
suggestions or requests. Maybe another tent would be much smaller. As was stated
before, where do we draw the line, set the standards, and get an answer before it is
decided. He had mixed feelings. He is supportive of more sales tax and understands
difficult economic times. Perhaps it should be discussed further at another meeting.
Trustee Wolin said that from a personal standpoint, he thought it would be worth a
one -time trial to see if it works out; then see what the reaction of the community
would be unless the commissioners are uncomfortable with it.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that if an event is held and it does
not live up to the expectation that everyone thought would occur; the Village Board
could very well say that there would not be any more of those events. They could
send the language back to the Plan Commission and the Zoning Board to see if it
could be better tweaked or reverse it to go back the way it was.
Mr. Moody said that the village has a business partner such as Macy's that wants to
do something in terms of providing something that is within the spirit of the
community. He added that the weather does become a concern and timing in terms
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 24 of 26 July 21, 2008
of their plans for an event, which they had been hoping for at the end of September.
It not at that time, then they would not be able to have an event this year.
Member Lalmalani asked if input was sought from the neighboring retailers.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that notices were sent to some of
the neighboring shopping centers. He spoke with Chuck Fleming of the Oakbrook
Center just cautioned that unless it is properly structured something like this could
get out of control because more events may be requested than were anticipated. The
applicant has tried to address all of the issues that were brought up. It is a good site
and there may be some properties where people would want to do this and would
just not be appropriate, so the Village Board would have to ultimately say no. There
may be good places, and there may not be good places. The burden is placed upon
the elected officials to review the requests on a case -by -case basis.
Member Lalmalani said that Macy's is an ideal location.
Chairwoman Payovich noted that there are restrictions in the language. She felt
inclined to go forward with it based upon the season. Looking at it as Macy's, they
may be given the opportunity to go forward and determine whether it would, be a
success - continuing event in Oak Brook or a one -time event would be in their hands.
Member Iyer said then he would suggest that it move forward and see what happens.
He had addressed his concerns for the record.
Member Payovich suggested that if the event occurs, the Commissioners should go
there to see what happens with it first hand.
Mr. Moody welcomed the Plan Commission to come to the site.
Mr. Lindeman said that he would be favorable of a one -time event with the
understanding that it would be evaluated and no promise made as to what the future
holds. What disappointed him the most was Mr. Kallien's reference to a
conversation with Chuck Fleming who is the manager of the Oakbrook Center. Any
information received from any other business should be forwarded to the people that
make decisions such as this.
Chairwoman Payovich thanked Mr. Lindeman for his comments, but added that Mr.
Kallien has never kept any information from her or anyone else.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that the text amendment creates
the framework in the zoning ordinance. If anyone seeks to have a special event, then
an application must be submitted to the Village Board that ultimately would approve
it. It would be on a case -by -case basis. The Plan Commission is not approving the
Macy's event. They are merely providing the framework of what such an event
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Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 25 of 26 July 21, 2008
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7
would be and they have gone to the next step to show how the event would impact
their property.
Chairwoman Payovich added that approval of the text amendment allows the
applicant the opportunity to come to the Village Board with its request. If the
Village Board does not like what is presented, they can deny it.
Mr. Brechin said that they are not seeking approval of any tent event as part of the
text amendment request. They are only seeking this amendment in order to establish
the procedure. After Plan Commission and Zoning Board of Appeals
recommendations, the Village Board will determine whether or not the amendment
is approved. If the amendment is not approved it is over. If they approve it, then an
application for a specific event could be processed. This is not an accelerated
process; the Village Board is going to have every opportunity to not only consider
the merits of having the language in the ordinance, but also the specific merits of
what Macy's or any other business might be asking for in terms of approval.
Trustee Wolin said that the matter would also go to the Zoning Board for its opinion.
If the opportunity presents itself when the tape goes to the Plan Commission
members to review the Time Square matter, they could also review this issue.
Motion by Member Lalmalari, seconded by Member Tropinski to recommend
approval the text amendment as proposed by the applicant that would permit outdoor
sales events in the B- Districts as approved by the Village Board. ROLL CALL
VOTE:
Ayes: 4 — Members Iyer, Lalmalani, Tropinski and Chairwoman Payovich
Absent: 3 -- Members Knitter, Sharma and Singhal
Nays: 0 — Motion Carried.
OTHER BUSINESS BUSINESS
There was no other business to discuss.
ADJOURNMENT: ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Member Iyer, seconded by Member Tropinski to adjourn the meeting at
10:32 p.m. VOICE VOTE: Motion carried.
ATTEST:
Robert Kal en, Directot of Community Development
Secretary
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
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July 21, 2008