Minutes - 10/21/2013 - Plan Commission MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 21, 2013 REGULAR
MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF THE
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK APPROVED AS WRITTEN
ON DECEMBER 16,2013
1. CALL TO ORDER: CALL TO ORDER
The Regular Meeting of the Plan Commission was called to order by Chairwoman
Tropinski in the 'Samuel E. Dean Board Room of the Butler Government Center at
7:01 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL: ROLL CALL
Gail Polanek called the roll with the following persons
PRESENT: Chairwoman Marcia Tropinski, Members Thomas Doyle, Raju Iyer,
Naveen Jain and Simon Sheers
ABSENT Members Raj Lal and William Weiss
IN ATTENDANCE: Gerald Wolin, Trustee and Director of Community
Development Robert Kai lien Jr.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF JULY 15 2013
Motion by Member Iyer, seconded by Member Doyle to approve the minutes of the
July 15, 2013 Regular Plan Commission meeting as written. VOICE VOTE:
Motion Carried.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION OF AUGUST 19 2013
Motion by Member Iyer, seconded by Member Sheers to approve the minutes of the
August 19, 2013 Regular Plan Commission meeting as written. VOICE VOTE:
Motion Carried.
4. UNFINISHED BUSINESS UNFINISHED
BUSINESS
Unfinished Business was moved to after New Business on the agenda.
5. NEW BUSINESS NEW BUSINESS
A. MB BANK — ROCCA — 3824 YORK ROAD — CERTIFICATE OF MB BANK -
ROCCA - 3824
APPROPRIATENESS — AMEND CONDITIONS OF ORDINANCE S-914 YORK RD- CERT
RELATING TO SIGNS APPROPRIATE -
AMEND S-914
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 1 of 12 October 21, 2013
lam
Director of Community Development Kallien provided an overview of the request
noting that MB was located in the Historic Graue Mill Gateway Overlay District,
which provides for additional requirements relative to design and material that
normally are not part of the other zoning districts. Anything that occurs with those
buildings, including new construction and modifications require the Village review
and issue a Certificate of Appropriateness. The original Rocca building located at
3824 York received a Certificate of Appropriateness and they are now seeking an
amendment to it, which requires a hearing before the Plan Commission, with
approval by the Village Board. They are seeking to modify the existing signage on
the property.
Chairwoman Tropinski swore in all who would testify at the public hearing.
Douglas Merritt, Professional Permits, agent representing MB Bank Corporation,
the Icon Companies and Mr. Rocca the property owner. He introduced Bret Dvorak
and Robert Lucente, The Icon Companies who is the design manufacturer and
program management company for MB Bank, Alan Rocca, property owner, Vincent
Romanelii, a leaseholder at the facility, Judy Hastings, MB Bank, Corporate
Representative and Pam Voss, MB Bank,Corporate Banking Manager.
Mr. Merritt reviewed the request stating that they were seeking the issuance of a
Certificate of Appropriateness to amend ordinance S-914 to allow modifications to
the existing ground sign fiom five feet in height to 10 feet in height and would
incorporate the MB Bank logo. The changes sought are as follows:
• Color change to the existing MB Bank wall sign to allow MB Bank color,
PMS032 - red. There is no dimensional change, color only. An existing
raceway has been part of the existing sign.
• Increase the height of the existing shared ground to an overall height of
ten feet above grade to accommodate the MB Bank logo as well as the
Graue Mill signature and key element graphic design on the profile of the
existing pier will be incorporated into the new sign. All tenants identified
on the existing sign will be accommodated within the new configuration.
• A dimensional increase from 7'6" in width of the existing sign to 9'2" in
width with no reduction in the setback from the right of way/property line.
There is substantial and sufficient room for the increase that will not
negatively impact the landscaping that will be proposed and submitted for
formal plan review.
MB Bank along with the property owner in collaboration with the Icon Companies
developed a professional design that is in keeping with the high standard of the
Village of Oak Brook. It was very important to MB Bank and Mr. Rocca that the
existing ground sign and its original intent and spirit is maintained. There will be no
dimensional change to the wall sign, only a color change. The wall sign includes a
day/night illumination effect and the ground sign allows for a halo-illuminated
proposal with an opaque face, which was integral in the overall design aspects.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 2 of 12 October 21, 2013
They would like the opportunity to incorporate the original elements of the Graue
Mill identification into the profile of the future sign. If it were the will of the
Commission to recommend approval,the incorporation would be consistent with the
spirit and intent of the ordinance and the site-specific ordinance. The corridor itself
does actually include additional colors of a corporate nature so the request is not
something that would be taken out of the spirit or intent of the overlay.
The Graue Mill corridor needs focus from a traffic perspective. He reviewed a line
of sight analysis on the screen (this was also submitted in the case file under page
H), showing the location of the sign with respect to traveling north and south along
York Road showing the existing and proposed ground sign rendering (not to scale).
He noted that directly across the street is the retail liquor store and the curvature of
the roadway.
Alan Rocca,property owner of 3824 York Road reviewed the history of the site. He
noted that he had been about 14 years since he appeared before the board. At that
time, they sought 7 variances and 2 special use permits. There was a small 50-foot
residential lot that he sought to have zoned commercial, which took a lot of work.
His first set of architectural plans was rejected because the board said that they
looked too commercial. They came back with a more residential look, which is
what the board requested. The plans were approved and the building was
constructed. The old gas station that was on the property at the time was an eyesore
and not what people would have expected to be the gateway entrance into Oak
Brook. The current look is much different. In the 1980's he became a homeowner in
Oak Brook and wondered if it would fall down, but did not know, he would be the
one to develop the property. He is now asking that the board allow the change to the
monument sign,which is similar, but more visible from York Road. It is a small but
necessary change. Over the last 10 years,he has noticed many people that have tried
to find them, but drive past the building, thinking that it is a home. On more than
several occasions, he has stood outside flagging down customers in order to find the
entrance to the building. He did not know of other businesses that would be a better
compliment to the area than a bank, a high-end residential real estate company and a
fine jeweler. He thanked the Commission
Vincent Romanelli said that he was a tenant in the building and wanted to offer a
different perspective of someone who has been in the building for only four months.
Clients repeatedly tell him that they have driven right past the building because it
looks like a luxurious residence. Knowing what he has dealt with over the last 4
months he can only imagine what the current tenants have dealt with over the last 14
years. When clients drive by, they are simply missing it due to the appearance of the
building.
Member Sheers noted that the Alan Rocca Jewelry and the Real Estate were
subordinate to the MB Bank sign. He was not opposed to the color of the sign, but
had great doubt about the 10-foot high sign. He had no difficulty with the colored
wall mounted sign.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 3 of 12 October 21, 2013
Director of Community Development Kallien said that the Graue Mill Gateway
intent was to promote development in a manner that is consistent with the character
of the area. He noted that Mr. Rocca's building is a great example of the area,
showing a lot of thought and in keeping with the intent of the district. There are
some contradictions. The Rocca building and signage are very good, and consistent
with what would be expected as with the Graue Mill. Across the street is a liquor
store with its own unique identifier. Down the street in Hinsdale, which has a
companion historic district where the McDonald's is located that doesn't appear that
there was any attempt to make the signage more in keeping with what the district
was about. Although his staff report acknowledges the need for identity at this
location, however, would there be another way to do that without having the
significance of the red sign or is it a scale issue. It really becomes the dominant
feature in the rendering and should be balanced. He questioned if there were better
ways to soften the impact.
Chairwoman Tropinski questioned the red logo is aluminum and light would not be
emitted from the red,just from the letters.
Mr. Merritt responded that was true. It will be an opaque face and only the routed
portion where the white MB letters will actually be backlit. Only the MB would be
illuminated. An exterior ground mount flood light at the base would shine light on
the sign.
Chairwoman Tropinski said that in reviewing the sign details the sign itself would
be using very similar materials as the building itself. As an architect, she found the
sign to be very tasteful and understood that they have a branding issue with MB
Bank. She respected that and liked that just the white letters would be lit internally
with a soft flood light at the base. It would look more like a business sign rather
than a commercial sign.
Member Iyer raised concern over doubling the size of the sign and questioned why.
Mr. Merritt said that in their review of the roadway, 10 feet was an appropriate
height. Considering they would like a legible letter height in scale and in proportion
with the massing of the building itself and the front fagade, which is often
overlooked by motorists because of its orientation, and the building is often
mistaken for a residence. Consideration was for a ground sign with an appropriate
height for the posted road speed and within the line of sight for the motorist's
perspective and viewpoint. The property owner testified that people often overlook
the access point, especially if they are not familiar with Oak Brook. Patrons often
miss the existing language on the ground sign because of it is five feet in height.
The quality of the architecture and materials that Mr. Rocca employed within the
development tools the meaning and information of the Commission back then to
heart and created a quality building. They have reviewed the sign design over the
last 12 months and do not believe that it is garish or inappropriate for the corridor.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 4 of 12 October 21, 2013
They feel that based on the road configuration, the motorist would have that safe
way finding and advance notification that they need to turn right or left, which is
where the requested height comes from. The line of sight, specific to if you are
driving a subcompact or a larger SUV, which has been taken from its actual setback
from the curb line of York Road.
Member Jain appreciates the building and the MB color and he suggested that if just
the color were added, it would draw attention by itself. He suggested alternates that
would not raise it to 10 feet, but still achieve the same objective.
Mr. Merritt responded that any modification to the existing sign would require
cutting of the mortar joints and removal of the existing sign face and would result in
new mortar joints and would look like an afterthought to the trained eye, which is
not what the village with its high standards would be looking for. They did look at a
more horizontal layout, but taking into consideration of the curb line would be a
larger mass and they would not achieve the line of sight they are looking for, so the
increase in height makes sense.
Member Sheers questioned that in the original sign there was equal prominence of
the tenants and what is proposed has a big square and the others are much smaller
Mr. Merritt responded that it was that way by their choice and design.
Mr. Rocca said that when people ask where they are located by the MB Bank
because that is a little more visible because the current sign looks like a graveyard
sign.
Member Sheers responded that he understood that the color would help, but he
could not imagine a 10-foot sign.
Director of Community Development Kallien said that 10-foot high monument signs
are allowed in the office districts. An example would be the sign on Jorie Blvd., by
the entrance to Residence Inn. The old code allowed a 6-foot sign. He noted the
challenges along this stretch of road. The quantity of signage that one needs in
terms of height and size is usually predicated on the level and speed of the traffic.
There are two traffic signals located at Ogden and at Spring Road, which is a very
constrained area and traffic does not seem to go by quickly. The applicant wants to
create visibility, but questioned if the proposed sign could be better.
Member Doyle questioned the extension a nameplate of the sign extended out to the
overhang.
He said that he did not have a problem with the height requested, because
approaching the sign heading north almost completely hides the sign. Any ground
covering used to shield the parking lot will not work with a 5-foot sign. Visually the
large red square on the sign looks more like a billboard. The size of the logo is
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 5 of 12 October 21,2013
disproportionate to the size of the sign. He did not know that everyone knows what
MB stands for. The logo on the wall identifies what MB means. He did not like the
foimat, different size faces, different type set. He understood what they were
attempting to do, but he was not comfortable with the way the sign has been
proposed and he would vote no.
Mr. Merritt noted that the illumination from the sign would be from all the lettering
on the sign. The address of 3824 York Road would also be illuminated.
Member Jain said that he has resided in Oak Brook for 14 years and did not know
that three tenants existed in the building and he drives through there frequently. He
appreciated and agreed that they need to do something. He liked the stone and
character of the sign.
Member Sheers said that he was concerned with the height. He does a lot of design
work, and did not feel that the sign worked together well, having 4 different
typefaces.
Trustee Wolin said that as a Village Trustee he hesitates to comment because he did
not want to influence the Plan Commission, as they should make their own
recommendation. He said that the building that Mr. Rocca built is an asset to the
community. He said approximately once a month he drives by the area and was
aware of the tenants in the building. He said he likes the existing black sign,
because the red is somewhat glaring. Oak Brook is supportive of its businesses and
likes to help. Signs in Oak Brook are a very emotional thing in the Village. He said
that businesses often over estimate the amount of signage they need and gave a
couple of examples. The main point was that he did not like the sign as proposed
and that it was not done as effectively as it could be and although he was not a sign
designer, he thought it was not properly proportioned. If reduced in height it would
probably fit in more with the building. If it went to the board as proposed, he would
say the same thing and the Village Board and would not vote for it until he had seen
some alternative designs. He offered to meet with them regarding some ideas.
Member Iyer said that the property is not in an area that people speed and did not
see how people would miss the sign. He said that a 10-foot monument sign looked
disproportionate and would not be appropriate as presented.
Chairwoman Tropinski said that the red "mb" square is a branding issue and has to
be taken into account.
Trustee Wolin suggested, and the Commissioners agreed to allow the applicant the
opportunity to offer a few sign options that would be more appropriate to the
building and area.
Mr. Merritt agreed.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 6 of 12 October 21,2013
Motion by Member Iyer, seconded by Member Jain to continue the public hearing to
allow the applicant time to provide additional options for the proposed signage.
ROLL CALL VOTE
Ayes: 5—Members Doyle, Iyer, Jain, Sheens, and Chairwoman Tropinski
Absent: 2—Members Lal and Weiss
Nays: 0—Motion Carried.
5 B. PERRY'S STEAKHOUSE — 5 OAKBROOK CENTER — SPECIAL USE — PERRY'S-5 OBC
-SPECIAL USE-
OUTDOOR DINING AREA ADJACENT TO A RESTAURANT OUTDOOR
DINING
Director of Community Development Kallien provided an overview of the request
noting that the request is very similar to other requests at the Oakbrook Center.
Majdi Hijazin, Attorney for Perry's Steakhouse, LLC, introduced the following,
Rick Henderson, Chief Operations Officer of Perry's Steakhouse, David
Kastendieck, Project Architect, Identity Architects and Chuck Fleming, General
Manager, Oakbrook Center.
Mr. Hijazin reviewed the history and background of the request. This will be their
first location in Illinois. They own nine popular restaurants in Texas and the tenth is
scheduled to open in Oak Brook in November. They are also planning to open
another restaurant in Denver, Colorado next year. Perry's has received numerous
awards, including the best new restaurant in 2010 by the Dallas Morning News and
rated excellent by Zagat magazine. They are seeking to bring a similar dining
experience to Oak Brook. The owners of the Oakbrook Center support the request
as well as area tenants, including Old Town Pour House that is located next door.
The biggest issue is safety, which has been addressed. As part of the special use
petition, the outdoor dining area and the planter barriers would be constructed as
submitted on the plans. The 582 square foot outdoor dining area with no more than
20 seats will be operated as follows:
I. The barrier system will be custom made with concealed bollards, concrete
planters, steel railings and will be similar in design with the interior finishes
found within the restaurant. A permanent concrete block wall with a stone
finish will be provided. It will meet or exceed the barricade standards
required by the Village.
2. The 3-foot wide emergency egress gate will open out only.
3. The patio will contain a 3-foot ribbon gas fireplace with an access panel
underneath through which the fireplace connects to a main gas line. There
will also be an emergency disconnect lever.
4. There will be no signage or barriers placed in the outdoor patio.
5. The restaurant will be responsible for maintaining and cleaning the outdoor
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 7 of 12 October 21,2013
area and shall comply with all applicable requirements of the DuPage
County Health Department.
6. A minimum, 9-foot wide sidewalk will be located adjacent to the outdoor
dining area.
7. No live music, dancing or other outdoor entertainment will be permitted with
the exception of background music that complies with the Village of Oak
Brook sound standards and the Oakbrook Center tenant requirements.
8. Access to the outdoor dining area will be through the restaurant only.
9. Planters will be watertight with internal drainage to allow greenery and
flowers.
On behalf of Perry's he thanked the Commission for its time and consideration.
Member Sheers raised concerns of the up lighting and its reflection off the clouds.
M•. Kastendieck responded that it was a computer-generated rendition. He noted
that the restaurant signage and lighting is below Neiman Marcus and the lighting
will not extend any further than the wall.
Member Jain said that he was a believer of outdoor seating and enjoys it very much.
Ike said that the outdoor seating would add to the character of the area and with it
meeting the safety standards, supported the request.
Member Doyle questioned the measuring point for the outdoor speakers.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that as the Code is written
it is measured from the property line or 25 feet from the sound source, however, in
the Oakbrook Center tenant requirements that are more restrictive than our sound
requirements; their measure is from tenant space to tenant space.
Member Iyer questioned -whether the furniture would remain outside over the
winter. He also questioned the hours the dining area would be open.
Mr. Kastendieck responded that all of the freestanding furniture would be removed.
He said that the hours would be the same as those of the restaurant.
No one from the audience spoke in support of or in opposition to the request.
Motion by Member Sheers, seconded by Member lyer that the applicant had
satisfied the requirements for a special use for an outdoor dining area and to
recommend approval of the request subject to meeting the following conditions:
1. The development of the outdoor dining area shall be in substantial
conformance with the revised plans as submitted and approved.
2. The restaurant will be responsible for maintaining and cleaning the outdoor
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 8 of 12 October 21, 2013
area and comply with all applicable requirements of the DuPage County
Health Department.
3. The outdoor dining area will be operated in accordance with the following
rules of operation:
a. A maximum seating capacity for 20 patrons may be provided in the
outdoor dining area.
b. No live music, dancing or other outdoor entertainment will be permitted
with the exception of several outdoor speakers that will be located in the
outdoor dining area.
4. Comply with all other applicable rules and ordinances of the Village of Oak
Brook.
5. Add the provision "Notwithstanding the attached exhibits, the applicant
shall meet all Village Ordinance requirements at the time of building permit
application except as specifically varied or waived."
ROLL CALL VOTE
Ayes: 5—Members Doyle, Iyer, Jain, Sheers, and Chairwoman Tropinski
Absent: 2—Members Lal and Weiss
Nays: 0—Motion Carried.
4. A. VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK — TEXT AMENDMENT — SIGN vos - TEXT
REGULATIONS SIGN AMENDMENT -
REGULATIONS
Director of Community Development Kallien introduced Bill Hudson, Building
Inspection Supervisor, supervises all of the inspectors and Building Code expert and
he reviewed the portion of the housekeeping amendments. During the enforcement
of the sign code over the last few years,we have found some issues.
Bill Hudson said that he started using the reworked sign ordinance several years ago
and found some textual things that have made enforcement interesting. There are
places were the wording is unclear and for the most part the proposed changes were
housekeeping items. He reviewed the existing text and proposed changes on page B
of the case file,page by page.
Member Sheers brought up his concern that proper English was not being used and
he objected to the replacement of the word `must' with `shall.'
Director of Community Development Kallien noted that the Trustees and Village
Attorney would be made aware of those concerns.
Some proposed changes were as follows:
• Updating and encouraging the updating of sign faces without creating a
burden on the business community.
• Discussion on shall and must
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 9 of 12 October 21, 2013
• Typos were brought up and addressed.
• Individually mounted channel letters that require a variation in order to
install a sign. Some buildings are architecturally challenged, with glass
buildings or architectural features that make it impossible to mount.
• Violation of the code imitates code enforcement and possible fines.
• Real estate sold signs/contract pending, prohibited per existing code. Sheers
did not see anything wrong with a hanging sign indicating, pending contract,
sold, etc.
• Large real estate signs—for rent to require a permit
• Signs painted on a wall is prohibited and 2-dimensional applications would
be prohibited
• Residential private sale signs — currently allowed on premises only — estate
sales signs to funnel the public into the area of the property. Some
homeowner associations allow the signs on their common property.
• Garage sale signs not allowed on public ROW
• Director of Community Development Kallien we try to minimize the small
signs scattered throughout the community.
• Standards added for temporary real estate signs, including maximum height
• Nameplates do not require a permit but could be no more than 3 square feet
Member Jain questioned if the Village had looked at any other suburbs sign
regulations.
Director of Community Development Kallien responded that five years ago, the
consultant, Houseal and Lavigne, literally looked at least a dozen modern suburban
communities and took the best provisions from those sign codes. Our sign code is
good, however until you start working with it, you realize that it is not perfect and
that is not our intent. It was originally designed to deal with some very specific
issues, which it did very well and we are cleaning it up.
Mr. Hudson noted that there is scientific evidence applied to building and figuring
out spans, etc., but there is absolutely no scientific evidence to determine if a sign is
too large or too small. It is a perception that reflects the values of the community.
Director of Community Development Kallien noted that was the issue with MB
Bank. The way that district was written, we are allowed to legislate taste, design
and those aesthetic qualities. Each member has an opinion as to what that is. In
regards to the sign everyone agreed that it needed to be changed,but could not come
up with what was the right way. It is difficult.
Director of Community Development Kallien reviewed pages 9-9.a of the case file.
It was found that there was so much dedication made on the business side to make
the commercial/office signs better there were a few holes in the code that were
inadvertently not included.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 10 of 12 October 21, 2013
There is one property in Oak Brook zoned Institutional, which is the Bronswood
cemetery, but there were not good signage provisions the way the code was written.
He reviewed what made sense in the other districts and was consistent with what
was there before allowing one monument sign to be 100 feet maximum, including
setback provisions. This standard has been used in other districts to apply to that
property.
The CR District includes all Forest Preserve, Park District and the Sports Core and
golf course property. They are open space properties and do not allow for
commercial or residential use. The code currently states that governmental signs are
exempt from the code, which has caused a lot of angst with banners, temporary
signs, and things that are placed on ball field walls, etc. He is proposing that they
be exempt, "with the exemption of permanent monument signs and temporary signs,
which would be special events signs and sponsorship signs which would require a
permit from the Village of Oak Brook and must meet all of the requirements the
title."
All of the properties are large and many have boundaries on multiple Village streets
The challenge will be to figure out how it is managed to create some parameters to
control extremes. Bill Lindeman provided a picture of Toyota Park, which looks
like a walking billboard with multiple banners. Although, nothing similar to that
could occur in Oak Brook, it does indicate what can happen if there are no rules. In
the case file, a resident of Forest Gate provided comments on how they would like
to see banners and temporary signs handled. The challenge would be to treat
different governmental entities in different ways. The Park District, Forest Preserve
and the Village must be treated the same. All have the same needs, all are
governmental entities and all have substantial properties. Each entity is across from
residential properties. Village Hall is across from Hunter Trails, the Park District is
across from Forest Gate and the Forest Preserve is across from Briarwood. There
are many instances where there is a common theme among the properties. We could
never advocate imposing a different regulation on one or the other.
Information was provided in the case file and a more level playing field is needed
for what is allowed on governmental properties that may be extended out to other
properties. We need to create an expectation as to how long it would be allowed,
the maximum size, including how tall. Season long events may need a duration of
time that they are allowed.
Signage is a big deal in Oak Brook and is a very big deal to many businesses, due to
marketing and identification. Many businesses have located here due to the signs
they can have on the buildings.
Motion by Chairwoman Tropinski, seconded by Member Iyer to continue the review
of the Sign Regulations to the next Regular Plan Commission meeting. VOICE
VOTE: Motion Carried.
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 11 of 12 October 21,2013
6. OTHER BUSINESS OTHER
BUSINESS
Director of Community Development Kallien reviewed the upcoming cases.
There was no other business to discuss.
7. ADJOURNMENT: ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Member Iyer, seconded by Member Doyle to adjourn the meeting at 9:20
p.m. VOICE VOTE: Motion carried.
ATTEST:
/s/Robert L. Kallien, Jr.
Director of Community Development
Secretary
VILLAGE OF OAK BROOK
Regular Plan Commission Minutes Page 12 of 12 October 21,2013